Challenges Faced by Marketing Agencies | John Jantsch Duct Tape Marketing

PROFITABLE TALKS...

In this conversation, Christian Brim interviews John Jantsch, author of Duct Tape Marketing, about his experience with Profit First. They discuss the importance of focusing on profit in creative businesses, the challenges faced by marketing agencies, and the value of creativity in a world of AI. They also touch on the mindset of creatives when it comes to making money and the need for more creative entrepreneurs.

PROFITABLE KEY TAKEAWAYS...

• Profit First is a valuable tool for creative businesses to focus on profit and ensure financial success.
• Many marketing agencies are focused on tactics rather than strategy, which can limit their effectiveness.
• Creativity and profitability are not mutually exclusive; they can complement each other in a business.
• AI may have its uses, but it cannot replicate the unique creativity and problem-solving abilities of humans.
• Creative entrepreneurs have the potential to fill the gap in the market by solving problems creatively in various industries.

Ready to turn your PASSION into PROFIT?!? Let's get CREATIVE ➡️
https://www.coregroupus.com/profit-first-for-creatives

Transcript

Christian Brim (00:00.066)
We're here with author and CEO, Christian Brim. Welcome to another episode of The Profitable Creative, the only place on the internet that you will find out how to turn your passion into profit. I'm your host, Christian Brim. Joining me today is author of Duck Tape Marketing and marketer extraordinaire, John Jantz. I met you at a accounting marketing conference in Kansas City.

Probably 20 years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I vaguely remember that, but it's the only accounting conference I've done in Kansas City. were they in Kansas City that put that think it was CBiz. Yeah. was CBiz. OK, yeah. And bought your book, became a fan. So we're writing Profit First for Creatives in your post on LinkedIn and really kind of just fortuitous in this timing. I was so tell me what your experience with Profit First is.

So Mike's a good friend of mine. That's kind of starts there. I actually helped him create the Profit First Partners Network because I was doing a similar thing and I said, you ought to do this, Mike. So we've been friends again, probably 20 years and have remained friends and have done a lot of things together. We loosely practice Profit First ourselves. And by loosely, I mean, you we have maybe four accounts and not 40. And the biggest thing it's

you know, we've done it for years. It's the biggest thing is, you know, we just pay attention to putting profit in and then share profit as an organization or really bonus, I guess, it's not really profit, but bonus out of that pool and then then taxes. That's the extent of profit first that we practice. But it's just just the principle of like, if you put it over there, you will, you know, magically, you'll have it. long have you been using Profit First? Probably 10 years. OK.

you were going to describe your problem when you first heard about ProfitFirst or began looking at it, implementing it. What was that problem you were trying to solve? I think we were just so I was, you know, a typical starter, founder, you know, business owner who, you know, paid. mean, I've I've done some things that, you know, a lot of the things he talks about that this problem solves, you know, we weren't really experiencing. I mean, I

Christian Brim (02:24.622)
I'd been a W -2 employee for my organization forever. And I mean, we were paying taxes and making a nice living, but we were not focused on profit. was in fact, you know, it's kind of as a sub -chapter S 100 % owner, you kind of, you're almost were, you're, you're almost thinking we don't want to show a profit. Right. Right. You know, for tax purposes. However, what this really, you know, at some point we're going to sell this business and

know, it really kind of dawned on me that we were not able to show, even though we were making a profit, you know, we weren't showing it in the traditional fashion, which I know a lot of people back that out and do play different things with numbers when they're trying to, you know, sell a company. But it's really for whatever reason, and I think that this, lot of people that experience this, sort of magically has us more focused on profit. And so consequently, our profit is greater.

Right. So we're doing other things to make sure that everything we do is profitable. So it got more granular into profit rather than just looking at the P &L and going, yeah, we made some money this month. you are working with other ad agencies, is that correct? So we actually have a number of businesses. We have our own agency, which really practices. I mean, it's kind of the laboratory, if you will, for duct tape marketing.

our methodology. And then we actually license our methodology, which is essentially a very specific approach to developing strategy for small, mid -sized businesses. We license that to other agencies, consultants, coaches, fractional CMOs. And they pay us essentially a training fee.

But then they also join a network as well. That part's actually optional, but, you know, can participate in an ongoing network where we do in -person events and continued training and masterminding, all those things. So when you're looking at marketing agencies, the lay of the land, what's out there, I have my own opinion that no one cares about mine, but we'll focus on yours since you're the expert. It seems like that's a very dynamically changing environment. And...

Christian Brim (04:35.712)
I know that there's oftentimes a lack when you talk about a marketing agency, especially in a small business world, the whole concept of business objectives and return on investment is not even considered. Talk about what you see. So what we see is there are actually very few marketing agencies. They are tactics agencies. And, you know, they're selling a

suite of three tactics or the tactic of the week or whatever it is that they do or whatever the client says that they want. And quite often, they are not... There's no emphasis on strategy. There's no emphasis on messaging or differentiation. It's all just about, yeah, we're going to drive leads through SEO or whatever the thing is that they do. I think two things have happened. I really see a lot of businesses

that are getting kind of soured by that approach because it doesn't move the needle. But I also see a lot of people selling those tactics for increasingly lower amounts. so from the agency standpoint, if you're relying on those tactics, it's kind of a race to the bottom. What we find is by selling strategy, actually, our whole goal when we get a prospect is to sell them this engagement that we call strategy first, because first off, it attracts the right clients, you know, that

realize they need to invest in their marketing, invest in their business. But it also allows us to develop the right relationship. We're not a vendor. At that point, we are a trusted advisor. And consequently, what it allows us to do is it allows us to charge profitably than for the tactics because we are their trusted advisor. They just want us to make it happen.

So writing this book, Profit First for Creatives, I've come on this core statement that I want to share with you and then you tell me where if my head's in the cloud or I'm on track. the core message of this book is going to be that you don't have to compromise your creativity to make a profit. Creativity and profitability are complementary. do you think about that? I think that

Christian Brim (06:48.342)
it's going to be the only profitable space left for creatives because, you know, I've, I spoke at a conference yesterday and one of the first speakers was using AI and design. And it was all about, you know, look at this cool stuff it can do. You know, nobody was talking about, you know, the, the strategic, you know, aspect, that a truly creative person can, can bring, that, know, no AI will. And I'm not bashing AI. mean, I, well, a lot of people in that,

in creative industry, you know, are fearful of these new tools. what I always tell people is somebody who is a hack using AI is not going to take your job. However, somebody who is creative like you, who employs AI to do some of the things that it's meant to do will take your job because, know, that to me is, the creativity, you know, AI, well, maybe someday I'll get there. So I shouldn't say we'll never. But currently, AI doesn't dream.

You know, it doesn't think outside the box. mean, essentially, you know, lot of these tools that are seen as kind of cool tools and really trendy tools right now, you know, are essentially doing what they've been taught to do. You know, the real value of a creative person is somebody who can package, who can take two things and put them together that, you know, that I mean, we all look at that somebody that's truly creative and you're like, wow, I never would have thought of that. And it was literally somebody that was

paying attention to something that looked truly unique to them and they were actually able to bring it into the world. I think that space is very safe today. Now showing people what that would look like in eight different colors, that's what AI is for. I think in the marketing agencies specifically, as opposed to maybe like other creators, like content creators or videographers.

You know, they're living in that realm of algorithms already and have been. the impact, I think they're seeing it quicker. But it's this whole idea that really the value that you bring as a creative entrepreneur is the novelty. It's what you're creating that didn't exist. You're creating value for your customer or your client to solve their problem.

Christian Brim (09:06.996)
And the more uniquely you can do that and the more novel that you can do that, the more you can charge. hundred percent. it's really what I'm finding is what's the missing ingredient is orchestration. that's really where, having what we've really leaned into licensing fractional CM -ups is what we were actually calling this because that's

me, that's the message that business owners need to hear today. That's the package that solves a very specific problem. The system that we sell is one that actually allows for orchestration. Having the message with the right system allows you to charge the right price, which then we can get into scaling because you can repeat it and you can teach it to other people. that's really... It's kind those three things working together. It's the message, the price, and then the repeatable system. Today's episode of The Profitable Creative.

is supported by Core Group, the go -to accountant for creatives, the expert in creative business taxes, wealth management, finance, and accounting services. So speaking about the agencies that you work with, do you talk to them about ProfitFirst? Do you recommend it? Do you share your experience? So we definitely have had Mike and probably Ron too on doing training to our folks. And I know that just because I hear him talking about it.

you know, probably a dozen or so of the agencies we work with use ProfitFirst, either DIY or, you know, working with somebody. We were actually in the... I'm talking to Mike this week. In fact, you it's kind of one these things we've been saying for a couple of years, we should really embed our relationship a lot deeper and really, you know, be bringing ProfitFirst professionals into some of our clients. know, so not just the agencies, but some of the clients that those agencies work with. you see...

a difference in the agencies you work with, those that do implement ProfitFirst. So we don't, I mean, we don't intentionally talk about that aspect of their business because it's, you know, it's none of our business. That's not what we're really in. But certainly anecdotally, from what they tell me, there are some raving fans just about how it's kind of changed their whole, I think a lot of agency people.

Christian Brim (11:25.62)
is a broad generalization, but a lot of marketers, let's put it that way, and creatives probably, the whole numbers thing is not really their strong suit. I think that what Profit First has done for a lot of the people I know in that kind of situation is it just kind of simplifies the language. It makes it logical. It's not all about accounting terms necessarily. And I think that in some ways, it's...

whether they are making any more profit or not, it's kind of relieved some of the stress about the whole category. Absolutely. That tracks with what I've heard from other creatives. One of the things that one of my teaching points in my book is around mindset and that profit first is a tool and kind of like picking up a hammer to try and drive a screw. If you don't understand the intent of the tool, you really can't use it properly.

And this mindset around profit, around making money with creative seems to be very distinct. There seems to be this dichotomy of either I can do what I don't like to do and I can make a lot of money grinding stuff out, or I can do what I truly love and I may or may not make any money at it. What do you say to that?

An issue there, I think there's even guilt, you know, the artist is like, you know, you did kind of the cliche of, you're going to sell out. Andy Warhol. Right. One of the most creative people, you know, that people would name as a great artist made prints. The horror of it all. But I mean, I think that what he was able to do, though, was push. Nobody made prints, silk screening like he made them.

you know, so it was still, he was able to mass produce items that he felt still embodied his creativity, but also realized that, you know, there was a lot of money to be made, you know, in doing, you know, that and getting his art out. that's one example I've heard other people point to, because a lot of people just don't think of him as, you know, selling out. he mass produced, you know, lots of things. He was one of the first people to have apprentices do his art. You know, so.

Christian Brim (13:46.774)
I think that's just one of those kind of things that's in the mind of creatives. I think it probably goes hand in hand with the more creative somebody is sometimes the less analytical. And so I think there is this kind of like you move farther away from ever wanting to see a profit sheet. I think a lot of creatives also do the art that they want to do. In some, I won't say it's a

all a rebellion, but there is sort of a little bit of like, the masses are doing this, you know, I want to do something unique, you know, that comes with a great price. And so I think some feel like you can't have it both ways or that if you are actually, you know, profitable as an artist, you know, that that's that's a bad thing. And I think that that's partly just, you know, that's kind of the culture that's out there, I guess. Perry Marshall, I don't know, do you know him? sure. Yeah. So I was at an event that he was

presenting on and he made this distinction between artists and builders as entrepreneurs. And the builder sees an opportunity, a need in the marketplace and an opportunity to make money and they go do it. Whereas the creative entrepreneur, not to say they're in the creative industry, because I consider myself a creative entrepreneur, but I'm not in the creative industry. Mine is passion driven.

And so they look at that same opportunity that the builder does and says, well, yeah, I can see the opportunity. I can see that there's money to be made. But why would I do that? Because I don't have any interest in it. Well, sure. You actually opened up a really big point to there. I think that the word creative is as terribly limiting in a lot of people's minds. It's like if I'm not a singer or painter or that I'm not really that.

But mean, every entrepreneur I think makes creative decisions probably all day long. you know, somebody wouldn't look at that and go, I'm going to frame that. But I think that, you know, I think we we underestimate how many of us really are are in the creative field. Absolutely. And I think, you know, talking to my publisher and really kind of crafting this message, one of the things that came to me very early was

Christian Brim (16:10.678)
the importance of this message because I think that the world needs more creative entrepreneurs. We need more people that can solve problems creatively, whatever industry, because that's where the need is and that's where the gap is, if you will. That's a wrap for today's episode of the Profitable Creative. Until next time, you money lovers you. And don't forget, Profit First for creatives is live via Amazon. Link below.