The Importance of Choosing the Right Idea | Todd Henry

PROFITABLE TALKS...

In this conversation, Todd Henry discusses his decision to self-publish his most recent book and the reasons behind it. He wanted more control over the size and distribution of the book and wanted it to be short, easy to read, and punchy. He also wanted to be able to distribute the book in a frictionless way and include it with his speaking engagements. Todd shares that self-publishing has allowed him to book more speaking events and have more immediacy in generating interest. He mentions that the profitability of self-publishing depends on how you define it and the goals for the book. Todd also talks about the concept of being missional and the importance of bravery in pursuing a better future. He emphasizes the need for an optimistic vision and a sense of agency to take brave action. Todd highlights that bravery is about serving others and pursuing something beyond profit. He also discusses the role of technology, including AI, in the writing and marketing process. In this conversation, Todd Henry and Christian Brim discuss the use of AI in creative endeavors and the impact it may have in the future. They explore the idea of AI as a tool rather than a replacement for human creativity, and how it can be used to enhance the creative process. They also share their personal experiences with money and entrepreneurship, and the importance of breaking generational mindsets. Todd reflects on his proudest accomplishments as a parent and as a creator, and shares his plans for the future.

PROFITABLE TAKEAWAYS...

• Self-publishing provides more control over the size and distribution of a book.
• Including a self-published book with speaking engagements can generate more interest and immediate impact.
• Profitability in self-publishing depends on how it is defined and the goals for the book.
• Being missional means responding to something in the world and pursuing a vision that serves others.
• Bravery involves having an optimistic vision, a sense of agency, and taking calculated and strategic actions.
• Technology, including AI, can be used in the writing and marketing process of a book. AI should be seen as a tool to enhance the creative process, rather than a replacement for human creativity.
• The use of AI in creative endeavors can provide inspiration, stimulus, and new insights.
• Breaking generational mindsets around money and entrepreneurship is important for pursuing possibilities.
• Being a successful parent means having a strong relationship with adult children.
• Continuing to push forward and produce work is a source of pride and fulfillment.
• Choosing the right idea to work on requires intuition and discernment.
• The book 'The Brave Habit' and the podcast 'The Daily Creative' are valuable resources for exploring creativity and bravery.

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Transcript

Christian Brim (00:01)
Welcome to another episode of the Profitable Creative, the only place on the internet where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I'm your host, Christian Brim. Joining me today, author extraordinaire, Todd Henry. Welcome, Todd.

Todd Henry (00:18)
Hey, it's good to be here.

Christian Brim (00:19)
Thank you very much for sharing your time. I'm very excited to interview you and talk about all things creative business. So.

Todd Henry (00:29)
Yeah, well, you're the man to talk to. That's what I've heard. You're the one to talk to about that. Yeah.

Christian Brim (00:32)
Well, that's what they say. That's what they say. Well, I want to dive in. You had decided to self -publish your most recent book, correct?

Todd Henry (00:43)
Mm -hmm. Yes, that's correct.

Christian Brim (00:45)
Do you mind sharing why you came to that decision to self -publish and what was different for you?

Todd Henry (00:57)
well, there were a lot of things that were different. I'll, go into the, the, reasoning, the mindset behind it, first. so it wasn't for a lack of offers. We had a couple of publishers who were interested, in publishing the book, but the problem for me was the timeline for publishing, as, you know, well, typically it's about a year and a half to two years from the time you signed the contract and the time the book comes out.

publishers have this pesky little interest in having books be.

200 plus pages that are you know or almost 300 pages that are hardcover that they can sell for $30 Which I understand because they're putting a lot into it They want to make sure that they can you know sell it for a high volume or high dollar amount and I didn't want this book to be that I wanted it to be short easy to read short chapters Very punchy. It was a very missional book for me I've been working on it for a number of years behind the scenes and I wanted to make sure that

Christian Brim (01:51)
Mm

Todd Henry (01:58)
that the book.

was very punchy. didn't make it anything, I didn't put filler in, wasn't, you know, I didn't try to pack it full of like stories that were kind of related to the main point, but you could kind of see that I was really just kind of filling pages. So that was a big part of it was just I wanted more control over the size and the distribution of the book. The other thing is, and it's interesting, I have an event I'm speaking at this month where I'm including copies of this

Christian Brim (02:14)
Right.

Todd Henry (02:30)
book with my speaking fee now. I can't really do that with my books that were published through Penguin Random House. Cause you know, whatever you're going to pay on Amazon, like that's what I'm going to pay as well. You know, in order to get copies of the books, it just becomes, it's not very cost effective to do that. and so, you know, I wanted to get the message out into the world in a, frictionless a way as possible. So that was the kind of the mindset that went into it. what was different? I mean, I had to figure out how to be a publisher.

Christian Brim (02:40)
Right.

Todd Henry (03:00)
That was certainly very interesting. Although I will say that it is so remarkably easy now to self publish. Much more so than I even anticipated. It's, really easy to do it. There are so many tools available. There's so many great freelancers out there who can help you along the, along the journey. So that was, that was kind of the, I guess maybe what some of what I learned along the way is just.

Christian Brim (03:07)
Right?

Todd Henry (03:29)
that when you are an author, it's really nice to be able to kind of take your hands off the wheel and let editors and designers and other people and distributors kind of take control of the project from time to time. you could have it off your plate. That was sort of always my thing when writing my first five books, it was always like, six books, you said my first six books.

Christian Brim (03:38)
Mm -hmm.

Todd Henry (03:52)
You know, I do my part and then, okay, it's off my plate. Now it's, now it's your responsibility for a while. Okay. it came back to me. Okay. Now I have to work on it some more. Okay. Now it's off my plate. Now it's your responsibility for a while. there's none of that when, when you're the, you know, the, self publisher, it's like, it's always on your plate. Everything is on your plate all the time. And so that was the, that was the one mindset shift. I will say though, it is nice to be able to, distribute it however I want to have complete access to the material, the content.

Christian Brim (03:58)
Right.

Todd Henry (04:22)
has been a really freeing thing because it really, for me, this was a missional book more than it was something that I was hoping would, you know, find broad distribution. It was really something I just wanted to be able to get into people's hands very quickly because I feel like it's a timely message.

Christian Brim (04:39)
So do you think, and you may not have had enough time to realize this, but was it more profitable to do self -publishing than to go with a publisher?

Todd Henry (04:55)
Well, it depends on how you define profitable. From a purely from a book publishing standpoint.

Christian Brim (05:01)
Okay.

Todd Henry (05:08)
you know, mean, traditionally over the course of many years, I mean, I've gotten used to sort of collecting advances from publishers and then writing books and then selling the books and then earning out those advances and then getting royalty checks once I earn out the advances, right? so it's a little more risky upfront from the standpoint that like nobody was writing me a big check to publish a book.

So there is some of that and publishers have ways of making money. Maybe that I don't have access to, know, to making money off of, off of books.

Christian Brim (05:34)
Mm

Todd Henry (05:38)
But from the standpoint of me being able to go out and find speaking events around this book and packaging the book as part of that value, I'm a hundred percent certain that I've booked many more speaking events as a result of having self -published this book and being able to sort of include this with the package and sort of make it more of a, a missional sort of targeted thing. And so I'm not just thinking about making money from the book itself as much as I am.

Christian Brim (05:43)
Mm -hmm.

Todd Henry (06:09)
seeing the book as kind of the leading edge of a much more...

expansive business model around this idea of instilling brave habits in your life. So, I would say I'm getting more, there was more immediacy to the interest. Most of my books I've published in the past, it's taken six to eight months before I started getting like a lot of speaking inquiries around the book. takes time to read it and process it all of that. This was much more immediate, I would say from that standpoint.

Christian Brim (06:22)
So.

So if you were to, when you write another book, will you self -publish or no? Or will it depend?

Todd Henry (06:50)
It depends on my inclination right now is yes, but it kind of depends strategically on the nature of the book. You know, like I mentioned, this one was a very missional book. wanted it to be 150 pages paperback, easy to produce, easy to hand out. know, if it's going to be something that I think would have more reach with a traditional publishing platform, I might go back to a traditional publishing.

imprint at some point if, if, if the book would be served by that or the message would be served by that, or if there isn't a kind of immediacy to the message. So I guess that's my way of saying it kind of depends on the nature of the book, right? And my, and my goals for the book, anything that's like a big think piece kind of book, I think is, is really well served by a traditional publishing imprint, right? because also in many of those cases,

you need the refining infrastructure of an editorial team. You know, I mean, like, I'll give you an example, hurting tigers. my, my leadership book that came out in 2018, work with some phenomenal editors at portfolio at Penguin random house. And there were entire sections of the book that were completely redefined by that editorial input. We cut an entire chapter out of the book, you know, because it just didn't fit. I don't think I would have had those instincts, nor do I think that anybody would have necessarily hired

Christian Brim (07:53)
Mm -hmm. Right.

Mm -hmm.

Todd Henry (08:19)
as a freelancer would have had the instincts to make that book into what it became. because it was a big complex thought laden kind of book. whereas this was much more sort of simple, direct focus to have a couple of things I wanted to say. yeah. So I think, I think it just depends on the nature of the book. think I would encourage people listening. If you think you want to put something into the world and the big barrier that you're.

Christian Brim (08:30)
Right.

Todd Henry (08:46)
Continuously running up against is well, no publisher will agree to publish my book I mean by all means pursue self publishing because it's so easy and it's so easy to find distribution now Just make sure that you put the time and the energy and the effort into it to make it

Good. That's the one thing I would say, like I had the benefit of having traditionally published six books before doing this. So I sort of had that long history of understanding the business, understanding the industry, understanding how to write a book. just make sure that you're working with people to help you if you've, if you've not done it before.

Christian Brim (09:11)
Sure.

You keep using the word missional. What does that mean to you? Define that.

Todd Henry (09:28)
it means my response to something that I'm seeing in the world, what's being called out of me at a particular point in time. And so I would say over the past, probably eight, eight to 10 years, I've seen some disturbing patterns culturally in, in organizations I work with just in culture in general and interactions I have with people. we've seen people retreating from what I would consider to be.

Christian Brim (09:33)
Okay.

Todd Henry (09:57)
brave behavior, people behaving in cowardly ways. and it's disturbing to me because we're almost normalizing it, you know, and some of it has been exacerbated by cultural, like social media use where we can make our opinions known from afar. can lob witty insults at people over social media from behind our anonymous, you know, screen names or whatever. and those are, those are cowardly acts. mean, they are, you know, getting face to

Christian Brim (10:12)
Yes.

Todd Henry (10:27)
face with someone, building a relationship with them, coming to understand them, even if we disagree, being able to find common ground, know, discover what we have in common beyond what we might disagree on. Those are acts of bravery. And so I think in many ways, what I wanted people to come away with and what I felt missionally called to was to

reintroduce this conversation about what bravery really is versus bravado, which is not the same thing. And to encourage people very practically to make bravery a habit in their life, to have brave conversations, to ask brave questions, to introduce brave ideas, to build brave relationships with others. I feel like that is the bridge to get us where we need to go culturally. And really I think it's a bridge to any business where they need to go.

Christian Brim (10:55)
Right.

Todd Henry (11:19)
who wants to do anything meaningful in this world, it's going to require a series of brave actions. All of the easy stuff has been done, right? I'm sorry, I know there are a lot of people out there who want to sell you some program that says, hey, take these five easy steps and you'll be making seven figures a year doing your thing. I'm going to, a little secret, it doesn't work. It's not going to work for you. It's going to make them rich. They're going to make seven figures.

Christian Brim (11:37)
Right.

So you're not a

You're not a Grant Cordon fan, is that what I'm getting from this?

Todd Henry (11:48)
But you're not, I'm not going to, I don't want to use names, but, but I will say like, listen, it's, it's not, there's no, there's no easy way to getting there. It is, it is a series of brave steps in the face of uncertainty that allows us to accomplish anything meaningful in this world. which means we have to train ourselves to act bravely in the face of uncertainty. Now there are people who will act.

Christian Brim (11:55)
Okay.

Todd Henry (12:17)
In a way that exhibits what I call bravado, which is bluster. It's, know, brashness, it's, you know, posturing, but that in some ways is kind of a form of cowardice because you're just often masking insecurity. Bravery is always about the other. Bravery is always about a cause. It's about a vision. It's about something bigger that you're trying to pursue, not in order to fuel your own life, not in order to serve yourself, but in order to serve others in some way, whether that's through, you know, building something that serves other people.

Christian Brim (12:19)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Todd Henry (12:47)
or, you know, engaging in some act of service that's going to ultimately improve other people's lives. It doesn't mean you can't make a lot of money along the way because we talked about in our interview for, for the podcast, you know, profit, you know, Purpose. you have to have profit in order to be able to have any kind of purpose, but at the end of the day, you know, there has to be something other than profit that you're pursuing, in order to, act bravely.

Christian Brim (13:03)
Yes.

Yes, you said focusing on others has to be, and you know, I had a thought run through my head and it's not a secular thought, it is a spiritual thought, but I'll share it with you and we'll see where it goes. A pastor said that a religious spirit is one where you use God's word for your purposes.

instead of for God's purposes. But it kind of, it kind of rings true to me that, it, what's the commonality there is yourself, right? And, and so if you are acting on behalf of yourself, it's hard to be brave when, when you act on behalf of someone else, it, it's, that is about being brave. Would you agree with that?

Todd Henry (14:16)
I would, yeah, I mean, I am of the opinion that the fundamental nature of the universe, the fundamental imprint, the DNA of the universe is self -emptying. That's the nature of love, right, is self -emptying. It's laying down yourself on behalf of others. And that's why we find that beautiful. When you watch stories, like how often do you watch a movie where...

the hero, you know, there's, there's this big climactic scene. There's a big battle and the hero turns around and runs away and everybody's like, yeah, Hey, good job. Way to, way to save yourself. No, no, we don't know. We, mean, we don't write songs about cowards. don't write, you know, I cowardly, the County being the exception, Kenny Rogers. Thank you. but, there's something that we find beautiful about people who are willing to.

to spend themselves on behalf of others, on behalf of a cause, on behalf of something that matters deeply. I think we should pay attention to that. Now that doesn't mean that,

You that, you know, to, to, to build something or to succeed in some way, it has to cost you everything. And you have, no, that's not what I'm saying, but, there, you have to ask yourself, what is the optimistic vision that I'm pursuing? What is my vision of a better future? how do I see things being better in the future? And that's the first thing that tends to be present when brave action occurs is that optimistic vision versus a pessimistic vision of the future where it doesn't matter. You know, there's no better possible future available.

So I have an optimistic vision of the future. The second thing that has to be present is a sense of agency. I believe that not only is there a better possible future, but I can do something to help bring that about versus a sense of powerlessness. Because if I feel powerless to bring it about, I'm not gonna take brave action. Why would I take brave action? It's futile anyway. Why would I do that? I can see the better possible future, but I'm just a victim here. I'm just drifting to and fro with the current. So.

Christian Brim (15:52)
Yes.

Right.

Todd Henry (16:12)
We have to claim that sense of agency, right? That sense of belief that there's a better possible future and that I have the capacity to help bring it about. That's when brave action is likely to occur. doesn't mean it will occur. But when you think back on brave decisions in your life, things that you've done, I would think about starting my business, right? Like I started my business.

Because I believe that there were other creative pros out there and creative leaders in the mid 2000s who were struggling with the create on demand world. were struggling with staying healthy in the midst of this pressure to create all the time, to come up with solutions, to solve problems. As a creative director, I was struggling with keeping my team focused. like, yeah, I'll bet there are other people out there struggling with this. I should put in the hundreds upon hundreds of hours to start building something, even though I'm not being compensated for it, but I'm just going to

and the time and the energy and the effort, not because...

You know, I'm trying to make myself rich, but because I there are people out there who could really use this. Now in the process of that, I built a pretty cool company, a pretty cool career. That's great. I love that. But the vision I was pursuing was how can I help these other people and what agency do I have to help bring it about? Well, I've developed a certain set of skills to quote Liam Neeson, right? I've developed a certain set of skills. I think I could apply in the service of those people. And so I think those are the two things we have to ask ourselves is what is my vision and what agency do I

to help bring it about.

Christian Brim (17:39)
Yeah, and I feel like a lot of what you experience in the United States anyway is a lot of...

I don't want to call it propaganda, but let's just say that there's a lot of reporting of information that almost implies that you don't have any agency. The problems are too big to fix. What are you going to do that could possibly make any difference?

Yeah, can I bring peace to the Middle East? No, I can't personally, not in the situation I'm in. But can I bring peace to my community, my household, my family? And I think that I don't want to say it's by design, but that just seems like the society we live in where

It's easy to become very nihilist, like, you know, just what difference does it make? And I see this in my kids' generation, you know, people in their 20s, it's just like, it's this a lot of throw your hands up in the air, what can I do?

Todd Henry (19:12)
Yeah. And it's unfortunate. You know, have two older boys, one of whom is a senior and is about to graduate. The other one who is a sophomore, right. In college. And

Yeah, I mean, I, I do definitely see it in my conversations with them. We were all home together for the summer, right? And it does feel like the problems are so big and especially, you know, we grow numb to, we think that because things were a certain way for us at a certain age, that things are the way that they were for us. Right. Like, I don't know. I was, I'm, I'm a member of Gen X. graduated college in 1995.

That was a pretty great time to graduate from college. It was a pretty great time to be entering the workforce, right? Like I could actually just kind of kick around a little bit, play music for a couple years, you know, see if I could build a career there. it didn't work out. Okay. I'm going to go try something. Like there was a lot of opportunity during that era. and things are different today, right? Kids are facing different kinds of uncertainties and different.

Christian Brim (19:56)
Yes? Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Todd Henry (20:19)
kinds of financial pressure. And so we have to take that into account and recognize that, you know, our job, I mean, think our job is to sort of walk alongside people and help them understand, okay, well, what, what does brave action look like for you? If you're trying to accomplish something in your life, if you have an ultimate vision,

What is the strategic way for you to pursue that? Because bravery isn't always about brash action. It's not always about like, go do the thing. Just go, don't think about it. Just go do it. No, that's, that's foolishness. That's in some cases that is foolhardy behavior. Brave action.

is calculated, understands the risk, it's strategic, you know, it understands when to act and when to wait, because sometimes you don't have that sense of agency, you don't have yet that vision of a better possible future. And the most brave thing that you can do when everybody else is rushing past you into a trend is to say, no, I'm going to plant my feet here and just wait, because I don't yet know if that's the right action for me. And so, you know, I think that, especially for people, I mean, I'm going through this with my sons, we have to contextualize.

Christian Brim (21:14)
Yes.

Todd Henry (21:23)
what bravery looks like because it's not always obvious. That's right.

Christian Brim (21:26)
Obvious.

I'm going to pivot here for a second. What impact do you see as a creator, as a writer, of technology? I'll ask, did you use AI in writing The Brave Habit in any way?

Todd Henry (21:45)
I did not use it in writing the Brave Habit, I used it in some editorial revisions. I asked it to look for redundant words. I asked it to, you know, tighten up a couple of sentences. But no, there was no AI used in writing it. I did use it to help generate some marketing materials for it. You know, hey, here's the manuscript, you know, come up with a handful of ways to market this, right? What would you do to market this?

Christian Brim (21:51)
Right?

Todd Henry (22:16)
But I did not use it to write it. And that actually, that's kind of a line that I've drawn for myself that I'm not comfortable crossing.

Christian Brim (22:23)
Yes, yes Well and and you know, I I see content It's one of two things it's it's either written by AI I can immediately tell it's either written by AI or someone that just can't write at all I guess it could be either one but I'm wondering, you know

short term three to five years, what impact is it going to have in your space? How do you see it changing?

Todd Henry (22:55)
And by Myspace, are you talking about book writing? Is that primarily what you're thinking?

Christian Brim (22:57)
Book writing or creative endeavors in general, sure.

Todd Henry (23:01)
so I subscribed to the Kevin Kelly, mindset surrounding AI. Kevin said, we can't think of these as replacements for the human brain. We have to think of them as alien brains. These are alien brains that think differently than we do that can do things that we're not capable of doing because our minds don't work that way. And we need to see them more as companion brains than as replacement brains. And so the way that I've been using AI is not

Christian Brim (23:23)
Right?

Todd Henry (23:31)
in the creating part of it, but in the, let's get some more stimulus into my process part of it. so asking questions, like if you were me and you were trying to solve this problem, what kinds of questions would you be asking? What kinds of resources would you be using? What are some examples of people who have done this or this or this and how did they do it? And, what are some questions that they asked? Right? Those are the kinds of ways that I'm using AI that I find.

much more meaningful and valuable than saying write a 500 word essay on whatever. Because it...

I see it more as sort of a way to access things deep in the recesses of my own creative neuro structure that I, that may not be apparent to me on the surface, but then once they're pulled out of me, this is why we created so many tools over the years to help people randomize their creative process. It's because you don't realize what is in your mind until something sparks a reaction. And then you're like, I forgot about that. yeah. I was at that game where this thing happened and my gosh, that's a great

story, like you, completely forget about those things until it's pulled out of you. And so, that's, think that we're going to see, we're going to see a lot of really horrible applications of AI where people are just using it to replace their own effort, you know, lazy uses of AI. But I think we're going to see a lot of brilliant uses of AI where people use it for inspiration for sparking.

Christian Brim (24:55)
Yeah, right.

Todd Henry (25:04)
connections and insights, in new and profound ways that they never would have achieved. So it's going to be that beautiful combination of human ingenuity and creativity and taste and intuition combined with the deep and broad stimulus that is available, via these AI tools. just, had a really good conversation for for our podcast, with Andy Crouch actually.

about this whole idea of the difference between tools and devices and how we can see AI as either a tool or a device. And the difference is a tool enhances your capacity as a human being. A tool is something like, for example, think about like a, like a nail gun, right? Like there are people who know how to use hammers, you know, God bless those people and they could go up on the roof and they could, you know, re -roof a house in a couple of hours.

And for those who aren't really great with a hammer, there's this thing called a nail gun. can go up and pretty much anybody can use a nail gun because it doesn't require any skill. You just point it and shoot, right? But it, but it's a, it's a tool that enhances your capabilities. and then you have devices and devices are intended not to enhance, but to replace. So we have a lot of our human capacities are, for example, our ability to navigate, have been completely replaced by.

Christian Brim (26:10)
Right?

Todd Henry (26:32)
Devices, know, like there was a time you remember this I remember it like you had to literally get out of paper map or an atlas if you want to go someplace you had to follow the road and okay now we're looking for I -17 or whatever like you had to literally Understand how to navigate sometimes you would literally look around to find your direction like all the sun's over there It must mean we're going you know West or whatever Devices replace human capacities

And the way Andy put it was like, you no longer have to suddenly becomes, no longer can. You know? And so my belief is the AI is a wonderful tool to use to enhance your capacity. And I think it's a dangerous tool. It's dangerous when it's used as a device to replace your capacity, because at the end of the day, I believe great creative work is.

Christian Brim (27:05)
Yeah, yes, yes.

Todd Henry (27:28)
defined by human intuition and taste. you know, that's something I think AI will not be able to replace.

Christian Brim (27:37)
I really like that analogy between a tool and a device. I think that rings true. think long before LLM showed up, I was doing a deep dive into AI. And it was more around neural nets and numbers and data. And the thing that still happens and I think is

still a great application is that it is a tool that allows you to analyze data that you couldn't do yourself. It's kind of like the computer itself being able to compute things faster than you can, right? And so it's useful in that way, but I'm not.

Todd Henry (28:21)
Right.

Christian Brim (28:27)
I'm not an AI expert to know what the distinction between a neural net and a large language model are, but it seemed like two years ago when Chet GPT showed up, there was a lot of hype around it. And I think people two years on are realizing that, yeah, that's a neat tool, but we're not 100 % sure how to use it.

That's the other thing is that any technology is limited by the human element, right? It's only as good as the human user and it takes time for the human user to understand the technology and to utilize it. So there's always that governor of the human element. So, I mean,

Todd Henry (29:20)
From a generative standpoint, for sure, I completely agree with you. think where we're going to see the biggest immediate application of AI that's going to transform our lives is going to be under the hood, right? Of the devices that we use. It's going to be the things where things just sort of pop up in places that we didn't expect them or our devices just sort of intuit what we're doing and where we're going and what we need. And it just becomes a part of our everyday experience. We don't even think about it, but it's AI under the hood, right? To your point though, those sort of specific applications

Christian Brim (29:30)
Right. Right.

Yes.

Todd Henry (29:52)
I think that's going to take some time because it's just like, you know, it's just like when, you know, automobiles came on the scene. It's like, not everybody had one that everybody knew how to drive. You know, it took a while for the, it to become something that was, you know, just ubiquitous. And I think it's going to be kind of the same way with some of the generative AI tools that we have at our disposal. Like,

Christian Brim (30:05)
Right.

Todd Henry (30:16)
I don't know, it kind of seems easier just to do it the way I've been doing it for 30 years, or I'm gonna get on the horse, ride the town kind of thing, so.

Christian Brim (30:21)
Right, right, that's exactly right. All right, I'm gonna pivot one more time. Tell me about what you learned about money growing up.

Todd Henry (30:33)
That is a really good question.

So I'll give you a little backstory. My family, my, my origins are in Kentucky, generations back. My family came up what's called the hillbilly highway route 23 up to central Ohio, settled in Pickaway County and basically became dirt farmers from what I understand. So this is like my great, great grandpa. And so, you know, basically they were laborers, not, not a lot of education in our family.

Christian Brim (30:48)
Yes.

Todd Henry (31:07)
my grandfather then moved to Fayette County, Ohio. He became a self -taught electrician in the factory. And at one point, my grandfather, when my father was young, my grandfather decided he was going to start a business.

The business did not do well. think there were some, there was some financial chicanery that happened with one of the partners. And my grandfather ended up losing a lot, you know, basically went back to working at the factory. So my dad was the first in my family to go to college. My dad graduates as it gets a teaching degree, graduates, becomes a high school teacher. And my dad is thinking about starting a business.

Christian Brim (31:38)
Mm

Okay.

Todd Henry (31:52)
And he goes to my grandpa and he says, dad, his dad, think, I think I'm to start this business. And my grandpa said, are you, are you sure that you want to give up that steady paycheck? mean, that steady paycheck comes every two weeks.

You know, and, and my dad at that point had, had done part -time in this business. He had made in two months, what he normally made in a year as a teacher. So he already had proven like it works. Right. So he was thinking about leaving and going and doing this full time. And my grandpa was like, are you sure that you want to do this? You know, you get that steady paycheck coming every two weeks. That mindset.

Was so ingrained in my grandfather because of his one -time experience, right? And my dad said, yeah, I think I'm going to do it. I think I'm to do it. And so he, my dad did, he left, he, started a business because my dad broke that cycle. I think it showed me that it's possible. It's possible to not just, you know, graduate from college and chain yourself to something and then sort of ride out that career. so I think my mindset around money.

Christian Brim (32:40)
Mm

Todd Henry (33:04)
Growing up was one of possibility. think, I was very blessed to not have a mindset that was limited by, money is very scarce. It's very hard to get.

Christian Brim (33:06)
Mm

Todd Henry (33:17)
Once you have it, you don't want to lose it. you know, it's better to have that little bit of security than it is to chase after, possibilities. So I'm grateful because I do think that often there are these kinds of generational mindsets that get passed down from, from one generation to the next. And I think my dad really broke that cycle by being willing to take that risk and start the, start the business when he did. so all I've ever known growing up from the time I was like,

Christian Brim (33:32)
Yes.

Todd Henry (33:47)
five years old was, I don't know, dad's got his own business and he seems to do pretty well. And my mom had a couple of businesses as well. They started a couple of businesses together that did pretty well. And that's like all I ever knew was like, yeah, you, you you, you go and you start businesses. It's what you do. And that's how you, that's how you make a living. So I'm really grateful for them for modeling that path because even, and you know this, you know, when you're, when you're an entrepreneur,

No matter how well things have gone every year you get to January and you're like, I don't know, maybe this is a year it all falls apart, right? Like there's always that thing. There's nothing keeping it going other than just like, I just hope it keeps going. but I'm able to withstand that and endure that because of this mindset that my, that my father had.

Christian Brim (34:25)
Right.

Todd Henry (34:41)
than growing up. So, money was never a thing of scarcity for me. And even like, it's funny because, my wife and my wife and I do have some different mindsets, you know, when it comes to like some, we had different experiences, right? Growing up.

And it is funny because we frequently have those conversations. Like we frequently have to talk to one another about like, okay, I think, you know, like maybe I'm being a little bit too frivolous here because I'm like, money, we'll just go make more money, right? And sometimes I'm like, I think actually, no, maybe we need to be a little bit more frivolous here, right? In terms of how we think about, you know, so it's interesting how we, that partnership has played out over time, but I'm grateful that my father,

Christian Brim (35:09)
Right?

Right?

Todd Henry (35:26)
broke that cycle that I think was probably in my family for a very long time prior to him.

Christian Brim (35:32)
Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. My great grandparents during the Depression, or was it, started the business before they had a general store, grocery store, and because they extended credit, they, you know, went under with the Depression. But it is interesting, my grandfather then,

did take a job out of high school, worked for Halliburton. He was a roughneck in the oil field, which is shitty work if you've never done it or seen it done. It's not just hard work, it's in the elements. But he started a business. so I think whether the business is a success or a failure, it can be an inspiration of what's possible.

I've said this, I used to look at some of my colleagues in EO, Entrepreneurs Organization, the financial success that they had had, and comparing myself like, gosh, I have not done nearly as well as they have. But I kind of flipped the switch.

A script on that and instead of it being envy It was what's possible, you know, and and I think having people that can Get you out of your own mindset and your own self -limiting beliefs of what's possible Just by examples of doing it themselves and not that you have to replicate their success to to be successful yourself, but it does keep you from

you know, falling into that trap of self -limiting beliefs of what's possible because, you know, I think at the end of the day, the powerful thing about entrepreneurs and creatives specifically is that it is a world of possibilities. And as I wrote in my book, I think the world needs more of those people that aren't looking to

just accept the status quo, but looking to your point, act bravely and make a better vision for the world and act bravely in taking agency and actually going and doing those things.

Todd Henry (38:15)
For sure. And, and often the rationale that we use for not creating the impact is money. It's, it's the security piece of it. which is always funny to me because I've had a number of friends who have lost their very secure jobs where they were very senior people at, know, so like the security thing is always a funny argument for me.

Christian Brim (38:32)
Yes.

Todd Henry (38:39)
I get it. understand it. I think it's more of a predictability uncertainty thing. think it's the, you know, in some ways it's like, it's, there are some people who want to go out and create worlds and there are people who.

Christian Brim (38:45)
Yes.

Todd Henry (38:52)
like are more comfortable to living in the world as other people have created. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. it's a wonderful thing. I, as matter of I encourage a lot of like, for a lot of people, I'm like, listen, best thing you can do is just go get it. Just go get a job somewhere, right? Go get a job doing something, doing work that you've enjoyed. It's meaningful to you. That's a wonderful thing. Not everybody should go start a business, right? By any means. but, but

Christian Brim (39:05)
Yeah, yes.

No.

Todd Henry (39:18)
If somebody feels compelled to do that, somebody feels compelled to start a business or to, to create some kind of value and the argument they're using is, well, but the insecurity, to me, that always rings hollow just because that's not my experience in the marketplace. Right. right. That's right.

Christian Brim (39:35)
No, I mean there's insecurity everywhere, right? It's it and and to me personally the difference is the agency piece like What what what can I can control? know, there's a lot of stuff I can't control and being an employee you you don't really have any control you you're your Security is completely dependent upon other people's actions and decisions at least I I feel like if I I'm

as an entrepreneur, have more control over some things that affect the outcome. I don't have control over all of them for sure.

Todd Henry (40:12)
sure.

Christian Brim (40:15)
What would you say is the most proud accomplishment you have, business or personal, so far?

Todd Henry (40:26)
I mean, it's going to sound completely cliche, but I think, the fact that our, so far, because we can still completely screw them up, but so far our kids are launching into the world, I think in a really healthy, productive way. because you never know as parents, like you can do all the things you think you should do.

And do everything right. And sometimes things just work out differently than you, than you hope. And so I'm really grateful that our, our kids have at least so far, you know, are, on a really good trajectory. I think that's definitely my most proud accomplishment from, from a business perspective. I think it's really just been, probably just the, the, I've continued to build a body of work over the course of many years that,

Christian Brim (41:14)
Mm -hmm.

Todd Henry (41:17)
that I've not stopped, that I've just continued to put work into the world. I've been podcasting since 2005. I've written seven books in the last, I guess, 13 years now, published seven books in the last 13 years, six of them with traditional publishers, one of them on my own.

But you know, I I have people that I know who wrote the book 10 years ago and they're still sort of kicking around their second, their idea for their second book and it's fine. Not everybody has that much work inside of them. There's nothing wrong with that. But I think for me, it's like, I'm probably most proud of the fact that I've just continued to push and continue to produce over time. Because I feel like, I do feel like, you know.

compelled in some way by something that I'm chasing after versus just doing it for the sake of trying to hold it together. But I really feel like I'm chasing after something, which is hard because not everything gets received in the same way. I mean, I've had the chance to speak on stages in front of tens of thousands of people. And I've also, you know, had work that I've produced that wasn't received the way I would hope it would. Right. So it's like, you know, you just, but, doesn't, that doesn't.

Christian Brim (42:05)
Mm -hmm.

Right. That's where the bravery comes in, right? You have to... Yes.

Todd Henry (42:28)
That's where the bravery comes in. You just got to keep pushing forward one step in front of the other.

Christian Brim (42:33)
I ascribe to Jordan Peterson's definition of a successful parent is that you want to be around your adult children. And they want to be around you. I think that's beautiful that I have felt like that has been my highest and best use so far.

in life is raising my children. What's next for Todd Henry?

Todd Henry (43:10)
Well, we're building out of two business partners. We're building out some pretty fun things for 2025 brand new ways of getting some of this work out into the world. So we've reinvented a lot of my speaking. We've built out what we're calling the Marvel universe of Todd Henry, right? After seven books, we finally sort of put it all into a system that we're going to be launching in 2025. So I'm really excited about that. I'm working on another book, which I'm not ready to talk about yet, but it's going to be essentially about how do you choose the

Christian Brim (43:18)
Okay.

Yes.

Todd Henry (43:40)
right idea. When you have a bunch of ideas, how do you choose the right one to work on? So it's really kind of, it's going to be a book about intuition in a way. So I'm really excited about that. And yeah, just continuing to push and build and work and hopefully get this message about being brave out into the world in whatever way I can.

Christian Brim (44:00)
So how do we find a copy of the Brave Heavit? What's the easiest way?

Todd Henry (44:04)
You can find it anywhere books are sold. you know, do Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Indie Bound, know, wherever you buy your books. It's on Audible. It's on, if you do Scribd or Scribd or however you say it, it's on, you know, or EverEnd, I think they are now. Most, I think most public libraries have it. So you can get it pretty much anywhere that you get your books. And also,

We talk about it quite a bit on the Daily Creative Podcast, is the podcast, formerly the Accidental Creative, but the podcast since 2005 that has basically been a weekly labor of love since 2005 for me. So you can also check out a lot of messages about the Brave Habit there.

Christian Brim (44:35)
Yes.

And of course, ToddHenry .com. I'm assuming we can connect there.

Todd Henry (44:53)
ToddHendry .com is the best place to find my books, my speaking, all the other things that I do, including the podcasts. Yeah.

Christian Brim (45:00)
Todd, I very much appreciate your time. It's been fascinating interview. For your listener, for my listeners, if you liked what you heard today, please leave us a rating. You have any show suggestions or guest suggestions, drop them in the comments. I'd love to hear from you until later. Ta ta for now.