The Role of Human Judgment in Creative Fields and The Changing Importance of Money | Bo Bennett

PROFITABLE TALKS....

Bo Bennett discusses the impact of AI on the publishing industry and how creatives can adapt to the changing landscape. He shares how AI can be used to write books, create artwork, and automate marketing tasks. Bo emphasizes the importance of staying ahead of AI by focusing on personal expertise and finding new ways to add value. He also addresses the fear of job loss due to AI and highlights the need for human judgment and context in certain industries. Bo shares his own experience of using AI to turn book ideas into full manuscripts and explains the challenges and opportunities of working with AI. The conversation explores the role of AI in society and the impact it has on various aspects of life. It discusses the feedback loop between AI and human contributions, the potential for AI to detect its own writing, and the belief that AI is just a hype bubble. The conversation also touches on the relationship between money and happiness, the importance of making intentional choices, and the pursuit of financial success. It concludes with a discussion on personal accomplishments, the influence of luck in success, and the entrepreneurial background of the guest.

PROFITABLE TAKEAWAYS... 

• AI has revolutionized the publishing industry by automating tasks such as writing, summarizing, and marketing.
• Creatives can adapt to the AI era by focusing on their personal expertise and finding new ways to add value.
• While AI can perform certain tasks better than humans, there is still a demand for human judgment and context in creative fields.
• AI tools can assist creatives in generating ideas, expanding on concepts, and streamlining the creative process.
• The fear of job loss due to AI is not new, and history has shown that industries adapt and new opportunities arise. AI and human contributions have a feedback loop, with AI detecting its own writing and human contributions shaping the development of AI.
• The belief that AI is just a hype bubble may be due to the lack of immediate impact on certain fields, but it is important to recognize its potential for future disruption.
• Money can be a motivator, but its importance may change over time as other priorities, such as family and societal contributions, take precedence.
• Financial success is influenced by luck and timing, in addition to personal skills and determination.
• Personal accomplishments can include both professional achievements and personal growth, and the pursuit of wealth should be balanced with other aspects of life.

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Transcript

Christian Brim (00:01.09)
Welcome to another episode of The Profitable Creative, the only place on the internet where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I'm your host, Christian Brim. With me today, I'm very excited to introduce to you Bo Bennett of Archie Boy Holdings. Bo, welcome.

Bo (00:20.595)
Thank you, good to be here.

Christian Brim (00:23.052)
So let's start with, I read your biography. It was very intriguing. Let's give us the reader's digest synopsis of your entrepreneurial journey. How'd you get here?

Bo (00:39.359)
Sure, in the short version, I went to business school for a degree in marketing, which I eventually got in 1994 in a bachelor's in marketing. And then immediately after that, I was running my own businesses. I started with a graphic design firm, quickly turned into an internet company, one of the first web hosting companies of the time.

sold it right before the huge bust, the dot com bust back in 2001. So the timing wasn't perfect, but it was very good. I was very fortunate compared to how other people fared around that same time. And ever since I've been mostly starting online businesses having to do with the publishing industry or similar fields. And now in the year 2024, I've been mostly focused

Christian Brim (01:21.717)
since.

Christian Brim (01:35.211)
Thanks.

Bo (01:35.819)
on artificial intelligence and using that towards publishing, language learning, and trying some other things as well with AI.

Christian Brim (01:45.485)
I would love to dig into that topic. So it's funny, I always say when something reaches that level of public consciousness that everybody is talking about it, that's usually like six or seven years too late. And last year when everybody was, well, or has it been two years ago, I don't know, when everybody started talking about chat GPT,

I was like, yeah, this is not something that just happened overnight, you know, and, I had done a deep dive a few years ago on the subject of AI, trying to emulate, Bill Gates and his, you know, go away and read 20 books on a subject. what I came away from it was, was fascinating, but I really wasn't sure how it was all going to play out. then.

AI pops on the scene recently and it seems like everybody's hair is on fire around the subject, but still not real clear how to make money with it, right? What do you see from your perspective in publishing or marketing or online in general? The best ways to utilize AI as it sits currently

to make money.

Bo (03:16.691)
Well, before I get to that, just want to address one thing that you said about if something's been, like people have been talking about it, most likely you're eight years too late or something. And I like that. Typically that's good and that's true. With AI and not just AI, but well, with AI as one example, but pretty much where we are now, the way that the industries move so quickly and technology moves so quickly that

Christian Brim (03:28.352)
Right.

Bo (03:45.215)
that pattern has changed a bit. To give you an example, when people were talking about AI back in 2022, pretty much nobody had access to it yet. It was still in development. It was still partially theoretical, but it was also being applied, but only by big companies. And it wasn't released to the public commercially for quite a while. So when it actually did become publicly available,

Christian Brim (03:46.54)
Mm.

Bo (04:11.455)
I believe it was sometime early 2023, maybe a little bit earlier to some special people who got chosen. It was still such a small, small group. So even now, to those of your listeners who are wondering, am I too late? Did I miss the bandwagon on this one? No, I don't think you did. Maybe to be one of the leaders in the industry using it in some way, maybe. But there's so much opportunity out there and there's so many possible uses that

Christian Brim (04:29.376)
Maybe to be one of the leaders in the industry using it in some way, maybe. But there's so much opportunity out there, and there's so many possible uses that it's not too late.

Bo (04:41.087)
It's not too late. And it reminds me of Facebook who jumped on the scene back in 2003. And that was pretty late compared to MySpace and a lot of the other things going on there. But you could always change the idea a little bit. You come up with the idea and succeed from that. In terms of your main question about how can people utilize artificial intelligence

Christian Brim (04:44.204)
Right.

succeed from that. In terms of your main question about

Bo (05:10.655)
to make money like at what way. Well, if you have any programming knowledge, and even if you don't, even if you're like just okay, like maybe you know HTML coding, that's good enough, trust me. Because with ChatGPT and AI, you could have that do coding for you, like basic coding, and it gets it pretty darn good. So even without being a programmer or a coder, it could definitely help you out.

Christian Brim (05:21.833)
HTML coding, that's good enough. Because with changing T and AI.

Christian Brim (05:31.292)
and it gets pretty darn good.

Christian Brim (05:37.641)
it could definitely help you out. So if you use some of the APIs that interacts with artificial intelligence like these large language models, the backend, and you could use it and build your own web -based interface for it, the opportunities are endless, and so much of what you can do. You just kind of think about what...

Bo (05:39.929)
So if you use some of the APIs that interacts with artificial intelligence, like these large language models, the backend, and you could use it and build your own web -based interface for it, the opportunities are endless, and so much what you can do. You just kind of think about what are the common processes today? What are some of the businesses today, the way that they're doing it, kind of like old school, and think, how could AI do it better?

Christian Brim (06:04.285)
school and

Bo (06:08.957)
Don't even think about it. Go to chat GPT and say, how could AI help different businesses? Like just go, just keep on naming different ways and just have it keep spitting out these ideas for you. Focus on something. See if other people are doing it. See if they're doing it well. And if nobody's doing it or nobody's doing it well, give it a shot. And at very least maybe you could hire some people from Fiverr or something that do have some programming knowledge that could help you out in the endeavor.

Christian Brim (06:10.662)
say how could AI help different businesses? Just keep on naming different ones.

is for you focus on something see if other people are doing it see if they're doing it well and if nobody's doing it or nobody's doing it well give it a shot and at very least maybe you could hire some people

Christian Brim (06:38.666)
So you either like you have skill and money or skill and money.

Bo (06:39.391)
So either like you have skill or money or skill and money, but if you have neither, then stick to your nine to five job, I guess.

Christian Brim (06:45.483)
Yes, so specifically in in publishing how do you see AI affecting that industry?

Bo (06:58.907)
It has been huge in completely revolutionizing the publishing industry, beginning with the obvious, like artificial intelligence actually doing the writing for the authors. And authors take this to different degrees. Sometimes like AI could write the entire book. You can't go on chat GPT and say, write me an entire book. That's not going to work. But through tools like the ones that I've developed at bookbud .ai, I've

created all the back end and the prompts and everything and the software to put everything together, utilizing AI to create an entire book. So you just go there with the idea and it creates the book for you. And then some authors use it for assistance. they may say, I was just speaking with an author this morning who wrote a book that was like 700 pages and said, I want to get this down to 300. This is just a stream of consciousness. So I suggested them, well, you go on, you go on chat GPT or use AI.

Christian Brim (07:36.874)
And then some authors use it for assistance. they may say, I was just speaking with an author this morning who wrote a book that was like 700 pages and put this down to 300. This is just stream of consciousness. So I suggested then, well, you go on ChatGPT or use AI. Upload like one section at a time and tell them to summarize this and make it more concise, make it more readable. And it will do that.

Bo (07:56.433)
upload like one section at a time and tell them to summarize this to make it more concise, make it more readable. And it will do that. And then you could also have AI add to it. Let's say you only have a paragraph and you want to make it a chapter. You could tell AI to make this, turn this one paragraph into three paragraphs or something along those lines. So you can use AI to supplement your creative work. You could have AI do all the creation for you. And then there's also the

Christian Brim (08:03.656)
And then you could also have AI add to it. Let's say you only have a paragraph and you want to make it a chapter. You can tell the AI to make this, turn this one paragraph into three paragraphs or something along those lines. So you can use AI to supplement your creative work. You could have AI do all the creation for you. And then there's also the monotonous type of work that went along with publishing for like the marketing, creating the...

Bo (08:26.415)
the monotonous type of work that went along with publishing for like the marketing, creating the, finding the right keywords, finding the best categories, writing a book description that sells. All of that now is done by AI and done better than any human that I've ever used before in the past to write descriptions or keywords or whatever. it just streamlined the process.

Christian Brim (08:33.53)
finding the best categories, writing a book description that sells. All of that now is done by AI and done better than any human that I've ever used before in the past.

Christian Brim (08:49.554)
Now, you saying your tools are better or any large language model is? OK.

Bo (08:57.76)
AI is better. AI is better at writing descriptions. With the caveat, of course, you can't just tell AI, write me a book description. You have to know enough about the industry, about marketing, about business, about the platforms to be able to create a prompt and give AI the correct instructions. And that's where prompt engineering comes into play.

Christian Brim (09:23.646)
So, excuse me. One of the books I read on AI was called Prediction Machines. And it was an outlier in the books that I was reading in that it was not written by computer scientists. It was written by two economists. And I'm sorry about that.

Their basic premise in the book was to kind of predict the economic changes and shifts that AI would cause. And one of the things that I'm going to put that idea, and I'm also going to say that I've heard a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth.

from creatives or other businesses, but just this whole idea that AI is going to destroy our jobs. It's going to take our jobs. We are no longer going to have any value. And what these economists predicted was going to happen that as predictions got better and cheaper, of course, they weren't talking about large language models at the time. This was before.

the outset of those, economically speaking, when the cost of something goes down, the demand for corollary items goes up. So the example would be if the cost of ice cream went down, the demand for hot fudge and whipped cream would go up because

people are eating more ice cream. And they translated that to like professional advice. And so the example they used was medicine. And at that time they wrote the book, they said, well, you know, in certain use cases, AI is better at diagnosing than human doctors or even a team of doctors. And I think at this point it's probably in all cases,

Christian Brim (11:43.452)
But the demand then would be for people to be able to one, know the computers limitations, right? You were describing how to write the prompts. Like, so you have to understand the blind spots of the AI. You have to understand the output. Is that reasonable? But then the demand for judgment and context and

It's like, okay, does anybody want to read this book? Does anybody care about the subject? You know, those kind of things. So I've said a lot and coughed a lot. What are your thoughts on that stream?

Bo (12:33.363)
Well, one of the ideas that you mentioned is extremely common. And I see this all the time, the fear of people losing their jobs and the fear of AI taking over. I could just picture the couple hundred years ago, I live in the Boston area, the streets of Boston, all the guys who are hired to shovel the horse manure off the street, seeing the first car go by, looking at each other, say, man, we're going to lose our jobs.

Christian Brim (12:58.96)
Right.

Bo (13:01.491)
This is going to put a lot of people out of work, including the horse breeders and the trainers and all that stuff. I mean, yeah, it's going to happen. always happens. Robotics change things, automation, industrial revolution. It's constant. The computer is personal computer. mean, there's never been a time in modern history that I know of where things weren't constantly changing and people's jobs weren't

like 100 % secure for the most part. So that's always going to be a thing. Do I think AI is any different in terms of the other disruptors, industry disruptors that we faced before? No, I really don't. I think that there's a lot of hype. And I think some of it's well -deserved when we've seen what AI can do. But how far is it going to go?

Christian Brim (13:52.423)
So.

Bo (14:00.5)
and how comfortable is humanity going to be with removing that human element from the equation.

Christian Brim (14:05.541)
Well, yeah, so like in medicine, you know, okay, you could go theoretically to WebMD load your lab results and your imaging and all of this and it spits out a diagnosis. Are you going to be comfortable saying, okay, show up for surgery, right? Probably not. And that's where the judgment demand goes up. So people are going to

Bo (14:26.047)
Alright.

Christian Brim (14:32.505)
self -diagnosed more and then they're going to want more people to help them interpret the results, right? And so along that line of thought, what would you tell a creative entrepreneur who sees the hard -won skills that they've developed, like how to write or how to create a visual?

Bo (14:39.315)
Right.

Christian Brim (14:58.714)
What do you tell them to be focusing on in this age of AI?

Bo (15:07.295)
Depending on the exact skill that they have, I would say for the most part, either...

Kind of expand on what you do or focus on your personal expertise. So let me address both of those when when I see some of the artwork and the I'm putting this in air quotes for those who are just listening photography and that AI can produce it is nothing short of mind -blowing. It is amazing. It is it is beautiful. It's incredible

And it's, I mean, it's more than lifelike. There's no way like the human eye could tell the difference for some of these high -end models. So when I think of photographers, like going on these photo shoots, spending thousands of dollars to go up to a mountain to catch a picture of a lion or something, or lion in a mountain, lion, whatever, it's like, I don't know if that's going to be a thing anymore. so these high -end photographers,

Christian Brim (16:03.76)
Right.

Christian Brim (16:08.688)
It's.

Bo (16:16.637)
These I see now with AI, you have the models who can try on different clothes. You could have a clothing brand just use AI to model all the different clothes. I mean, that's so if you're a professional model, you know, what do I tell you there? You know, it's difficult for me to give positive advice to everybody saying, don't worry about it. You'll be OK. I don't think that's the case. I think that.

Christian Brim (16:29.959)
What am I telling you there?

Christian Brim (16:41.751)
Right.

Bo (16:44.915)
there are going to be those things where like professional models are gonna have to move from photography to video for the time being. Maybe work on some like commercials, build up their acting skills for a little bit. Of course, that's until AI catches up and does all that as well. But you have to stay a step ahead of AI. And I don't know enough about photography in many of these other industries like graphic design to be able to tell people.

Christian Brim (16:57.176)
Right.

Bo (17:14.621)
what exactly you need to do to stay ahead of AI, but that's something. See what you can do. See if there is something that you can do to stay ahead of AI and always have that advantage.

Christian Brim (17:21.647)
See you then.

Christian Brim (17:26.362)
Well, let me rephrase the question this way. What did you do as a creative, as a writer? You adapted and engaged with AI. What was your thought process? What were you looking for as you made the decision to create what you did?

Bo (17:38.206)
Yes.

Bo (17:47.423)
So as a writer, as an author, I've personally written over 12 books the old fashioned way, starting from scratch and writing all things down. One book took over a year. Most of my books took a few months to write. And it was a very enjoyable process. That's why I write mostly, because it's the process that I enjoy. It's the feeling of accomplishment. It's a feeling like I've

taken a part of myself and I've put it in a book that will always be there, that will outlive me. So there's something to that that AI can never take away. But in terms of finances, like that's a little bit different. Can AI write a book and make as much money as a human who writes a book? Yes. AI could probably do a better job in many cases in doing that. So it's not just about the...

Christian Brim (18:19.82)
Right?

Christian Brim (18:32.228)
Is a human who writes a book a

Christian Brim (18:37.996)
So it's not just about...

Christian Brim (18:43.307)
and find something else. But I'll tell you what I did specifically that...

Bo (18:43.743)
the money part, you've got to kind of reach in and find something else. But I'll tell you what I did specifically that really allowed me to embrace AI besides creating Book Bud and helping other people use AI to write books and making that a profit center for me, which is very profitable. And it was a good business move to do that. But I had over, geez, probably like 50, 60 different book ideas that I've been collecting over the years.

Christian Brim (18:51.457)
besides creating bookbud and helping other people use AI to write books and making that a profit center for me, which is very profitable and it was a good business move.

Christian Brim (19:06.116)
60 different book ideas that I've been collecting over the years with notes and just like little chunks of ideas that were never

Bo (19:13.565)
with notes and just like little chunks of ideas that were never good enough to like write a book. There just wasn't enough information. But with the help of AI, I've turned dozens of those into books already because now I could use that as kind of like the seed for AI to help me to expand that on a full book. So here are my ideas. These messages that I wanted to get out to the public that

Christian Brim (19:17.861)
There just wasn't enough information.

Christian Brim (19:25.294)
because now I can use...

So here are my ideas, these messages that I wanted to get out.

Christian Brim (19:39.749)
It's still been in my notes folder today if it weren't for AI. But thanks to AI, I was able to do that quickly and efficiently.

Bo (19:41.061)
would have all it would have still been in my notes folder today if it weren't for AI. But thanks to AI, I was able to do that quickly and efficiently and affordably. that's how I there's a couple of different ways that I used AI to help me personally as like a creative writer to get me in a better position where I am today than I was before AI.

Christian Brim (19:49.316)
That's how I, there's a couple different ways that I use AI to help me personally.

Christian Brim (19:57.483)
to get me in a better position where I am today than I was.

So specifically in developing BookBud, how did you decide what you were going to use AI for?

Bo (20:16.541)
When I was developing book, but it was clear to me there. It wasn't like a decision process. Like I immediately saw the need for, or the opportunity, I should say, to allow AI to create a full book. man, if it could create a book description just by me telling it a few different things, why can't it create a whole book?

And it could. But there's a lot behind it in order to get it to work correctly. And as a programmer and somebody who's been programming since 1994, I said, yeah, I'm up for the challenge. I definitely want to do this. And I worked on it for a long time, created a lot of books, and then opened it up to the public.

Christian Brim (20:41.506)
Right.

Christian Brim (20:56.408)
And that's a great point that I want to talk about. you know, the problem as I perceive it with public LLMs is that it's, you know, any AI is beholden to the underlying data, right? So if, and coming from my background in accounting and finance, I'm thinking of numbers, right? So that's a

a different use case. the problem that I see of using these public tools without any tweaking or parameters is that it's going out and looking at what's already been written. And if people continue to use AI to push more content to the web,

It sounds almost like some kind of cycle or an echo chamber, right? Yeah. So what are your thoughts on that?

Bo (22:02.471)
feedback loop. Yeah.

Bo (22:09.651)
There's it's never going to be a closed loop meaning that there's always going to be human contributions that that come into the mainstream in terms of like Twitter feeds social media post in general blog post essay essays and all of that So I don't think that that that's going to be a major issue in addition if if AI is not really touched like if it's if it's not altered a lot the content AI can detect itself

in that it could detect its own writing. So I wonder if there's already something in place where when it goes out to get new information, it ignores information that it has already created out there. So I wonder if something like that exists. But I don't think that's gonna be an issue again, due to the human contribution, which will always be there to some extent.

Christian Brim (22:49.409)
Interesting. Yeah.

Christian Brim (23:00.289)
Yeah, and it seems like everybody's developing their own internal, know, metas got their own Google got their own Microsoft, you know has their own and and it's it is exciting because you know, I you go back your example was the guy you shoveling shoveling horse shit in in Boston You know Did he particularly like that job? No, I mean who would right and and so it as a society

everybody, everybody wins, but maybe not proportionately, right? So, you know, you're, you're going to have disruption at the individual level, but overall, the opportunities are more. You know, people could travel further distances and less time. So that's exciting, right? And so I think AI is very exciting. But I think we as entrepreneurs need to, you know,

Bo (23:52.435)
Yeah, sure.

Christian Brim (23:59.138)
I kind of feel like a lot of people are thinking that it's just a hype bubble and that it's going to go away and they're just kind of ignoring it. Do you perceive that?

Bo (24:15.705)
I haven't encountered people personally with that belief, but I certainly would not be surprised if people did hold that belief.

Christian Brim (24:22.582)
Yeah, like that it was going to impact them, guess is kind of like the belief that this is that's that's going to affect other people is not going to affect me.

Bo (24:33.245)
Yeah, then absolutely with that case, because I could just imagine there are a lot of fields out there right now where AI really isn't a big piece of the puzzle and it doesn't really impact them very much. And because that's the case, they're really not thinking about it. So they're just not concerned, but will in the future probably.

Christian Brim (24:50.198)
Well, it just is a completely tangential side pace. Our industry recently has seen venture capital come in and they're actually buying accounting practices. Now they have to be of a certain size before they'll look at them. But, you know, it's obviously a very labor intensive industry, right? It's a lot of people and,

I can't help but think that VCs in our industry are going to start squeezing some of those people out to make the profit to justify what they're paying and use AI.

Christian Brim (25:34.465)
So let me switch gears. One of the questions I really like to ask people is, what did you learn about money growing up?

Bo (25:36.349)
Yeah, sure.

Bo (25:50.513)
I was part of a unique family, which I think everybody is to some extent, of course, right? But my family were all entrepreneurs. My father, my mother, my sister, and my brother. So I never grew up in an environment where it was common to go out and get a job, go out and find a job. It was more about creating a job. And the fact that everybody was in like their own business, everybody was really focused on money.

Money was like a huge thing. Like if my mom made a big sale, she'd come home, we'd celebrate, she'd be really excited. If my dad sold an invention for a lot of money, we'd all go out to dinner and we'd celebrate. So money was like a huge motivator. I was taught that it was like the grand prize. Like that's what you wanted to go for. So that's what I believed and that's what I was shooting for. And certainly it was motivating.

Christian Brim (26:42.429)
Sir.

Bo (26:47.551)
Pretty much everything I did from my choice to college, I was always interested in psychology, but I knew that psychology wouldn't be as profitable as business. So I went to school initially for my bachelor's degree in marketing, and it wasn't until 20 years later, I went back and eventually got my PhD in social psychology. So money was everything, and it was a big motivator growing up.

Christian Brim (26:54.581)
Right.

Christian Brim (27:11.936)
Has that motivation changed as you've experienced success and aged?

Bo (27:22.067)
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. When, when you get things, you either, well, I guess some people want more of it, or some people don't, don't really want it anymore. Some people will get it and say, okay, I have it and I'm not, I'm still not like satisfied. Like I, this didn't do the trick.

Christian Brim (27:41.812)
Right.

Bo (27:47.633)
Maybe it wasn't the pieces of green paper that I wanted or the numbers in my bank account. Maybe it's something else. So for me, for me, I can't say that I was your typical story that you see with the moral of people were asking for money and then they got the money and they realized, it was all about family and love. Now that wasn't my story. I made a lot of money. I got it. I was extremely happy that I got it.

Christian Brim (27:53.761)
We'll see you

Bo (28:16.145)
And I spent a lot of it and I was very happy spending it. So I enjoyed the money and I still enjoy having enough of it and going after enough of it to reach a certain level. And I think that's where I changed over the years. think like my initial view of money was kind of like an unlimited amount, but then you start to realize that with the pursuit of

Christian Brim (28:16.65)
So.

Christian Brim (28:27.014)
a certain level. And I think that's where I changed over the years.

you

Christian Brim (28:38.09)
then you start to realize that with the pursuit of so much money, you have to make sacrifices.

Bo (28:45.883)
so much money, you have to make sacrifices. You have to give in things. And I realized some of the things I love the most is working from home. I was so fortunate to be able to work from home always my whole career and watch my kids grow up. My kids were with me every day and I wasn't one of the dads that came home at like seven at night and just put them to bed and then didn't see them again until dinner time the next day.

Christian Brim (28:54.472)
was so fortunate to be able to work from home always my whole career and watch my kids grow up. My kids were with me every day and I wasn't one of the dads that came home at like seven at night and just put them to bed and then didn't see them again until dinner time the next day. So that's something that, as the cliche goes, money can't buy, but in a sense it could because...

Bo (29:16.043)
So that's something that, as the cliche goes, money can't buy, but in a sense it could because having an adequate amount of afforded me that luxury to be able to make the decision to stay home. And so little choices like that, like I love to exercise, I love to stay in shape, which means that

Christian Brim (29:22.217)
the having an adequate.

Christian Brim (29:28.479)
Sure.

Christian Brim (29:32.168)
And so a little try.

Christian Brim (29:39.092)
means that I spend like a couple hours a day doing some cardio or weights or whatever. And that is time that I could be spending towards a financial goal, like doing some kind of work or something. But I choose not to because my health and fitness, especially at my age, is more important now to me than the acquisition of money. So over time, you start making those changes. And then, of course, when my kids were young and I was really focused on

Bo (29:44.049)
I spend like a couple hours a day doing some cardio or weights or whatever. And that is time that I could be spending towards a financial goal, like doing some kind of work or something, but I choose not to because my health and fitness, especially at my age, is more important now to me than the acquisition of money. So over time, you start making those changes. And then of course, when my kids were young and I was really focused on the family like that,

kind of took priority. But now they're both kind of on their own. And I'm back in that, I wouldn't say selfish stage, but I'm back in the stage where I kind of move from, you start with the selfish and then you focus on family. And now it's more about what can I do for society in whole? you want to leave something. If I'm lucky, I'll be here for another 50 years. That'd be amazing. And then I'm gone.

Christian Brim (30:16.733)
but back in the stage where...

Christian Brim (30:22.397)
start with the selfish and then you focus on family. And now it's more about what can I do for society and all. You want to leave something.

Christian Brim (30:35.071)
50 years, that would be amazing. And then I'm gone. I would love to leave something, make like a really good mark on the world. So it's more of that.

Bo (30:43.059)
I would love to leave something, make like a really good mark on the world. So it's more of that like long -term contribution to humanity in general that I'm going after now. So that's kind of like the main motivator. But money is a big part of that because money allows you to do the things you really wanna do. So you can't just see it as like this, like just buy into all these

Christian Brim (30:49.271)
to humanity in general that are going after now. that's kind of like the main motivator. But money is a big part of that because money allows you to do the things you really want to do. So you can't just see it as like this, like just buy into all these TV tropes or whatever when they tell you like money is evil and people who want it are greedy. There's so much good to it and it's just like a tool like any other tool.

Bo (31:12.415)
TV tropes or whatever when they tell you like money is evil and people who wanted it are greedy. There's so much good to it and it's just like a tool like any other tool. could be used for good or bad. It depends on the kind of person you are.

Christian Brim (31:18.414)
for good or

Christian Brim (31:22.512)
Yeah. And, and as a amateur economist, I'll say everything has a cost, right? Even if it's an opportunity cost of something you didn't do. So, being intentional about those choices, I think, is, important. I I've seen a lot of entrepreneurs, unfortunately that get on the hamster wheel of financial success, and then don't have any time freedom.

right? And, you know, building a business that doesn't require your constant input, where you're having to trade your time for dollars is key. And, you know, I read a book recently that was written, it was basically investment advice for the lay person.

And it was the only sentence that was bolded in the book. And he said, you're not wealthy unless if you still worry about money. it was like you could be happy with $500 ,000 in the bank and you could be unhappy with $50 million in the bank. Like if you're just, if you're constantly worried about money.

and it being there, then you're not truly wealthy. And I thought that an interesting statement.

Bo (32:59.711)
There's a similar quote from, I believe it's Ben Franklin, about like if you, it uses old English terminology for money, but basically if you make a hundred dollars and you spend a hundred and one dollars, you're going to be miserable. If you make a hundred dollars and spend 99, you're going to be happy. That's the point of it. And that is so true. It's so true. It's not about exactly just how much you make. It's about how much you spend. But like in psychology and sociology,

Christian Brim (33:11.995)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Bo (33:28.645)
Many studies have been done on happiness and wealth and just financial accumulation, how much you spend, and all of them show the same thing. You need like a certain level of base income to be happy. And it is true that if you don't have that money, it leads to misery. If you don't have enough to feed yourself, to feed your family, for adequate shelter, you know, kind of the basics. But once you get to like a base amount, then

Christian Brim (33:47.547)
Right.

Christian Brim (33:55.165)
extremely high.

Bo (33:58.501)
everybody could be extremely happy there depending on how much you spend. And it shows like even like dramatic increases in wealth only lead to like marginal increases in happiness. And some of that that probably has to do with some of the things that I was referring to like the ability to stay home, the freedom that comes along with wealth. And that's, you know, for me, that's huge, but maybe for some other people, it's not as important.

Christian Brim (33:58.557)
It shows like even.

Christian Brim (34:04.453)
Right.

Christian Brim (34:11.483)
Stay home.

Christian Brim (34:22.839)
What is the, if I were going to say look back on your entire life thus far, what are you most proud of accomplishing? Business, personal, whatever.

Bo (34:43.636)
Well, let's get all the low -hanging fruit, like the things that everybody says about like, you know, getting married and having kids and bring kids into the world. I think that's kind of like standard for everybody besides that stuff. think like earning my black belts in martial arts, that's always an accomplishment. I think because it was at a young age.

It was at a time when I wasn't very disciplined, but that journey allowed me to become disciplined and how much work and effort goes into it. looking back at that, that's pretty huge. And like earning the PhD, like a lot of the degrees and the accolades or whatever, those are the ones that have a lot of work behind it.

Christian Brim (35:14.94)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (35:35.515)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (35:39.241)
In terms of.

Bo (35:40.827)
I those are some things that I could point to. In terms of like the financial success, you know, I don't even put that on the list because I really and truly do believe that, yes, while I do have, I do believe I'm like a persistent, determined individual and I have like some of these business skills or whatever, I think a vast majority of

Christian Brim (35:43.494)
You know, I don't even put that on the list because...

Christian Brim (35:50.94)
Yes, well.

Christian Brim (36:02.467)
majority.

Christian Brim (36:08.922)
Mm

Bo (36:09.033)
people like hitting the metaphorical jackpot has to do with luck. It has to do with being in the right place at the right time. The only reason that I sold my company for as much as I did when I did is because I started that company right when the internet was taken off because I, that was right when I got out of school. It was like the perfect timing. I didn't have a family. I didn't have all these loans. didn't have, you know, I was paying a few hundred bucks in rent or whatever. So I was in the

Christian Brim (36:13.466)
only reason that I sold my company for as much as I did when I did is because...

Christian Brim (36:24.648)
Right.

Christian Brim (36:33.35)
so I was in the perfect place.

Right.

Bo (36:38.943)
perfect place to devote all my time and do the Bill Gates thing and read 20 books on that topic in order to learn all about it and start this company. And then I happened to get out of it. It's like out of stupid luck. I was like one of my former employees sold his business to another major telecom. And he said, hey, you got to check out this guy. He's got a really good company, too. I mean, this crazy chain of events that

Christian Brim (37:08.389)
wisdom.

Bo (37:08.645)
I had no like input in it. There was none of my like wisdom or knowledge that started these events. It was just like a chain event of like crazy coincidence and luck that ended up me selling my business for what I did and when I did. So yeah, I'm happy. do think that it wasn't, I don't think anybody put into that situation could have done it. But I think that...

I could definitely contribute a lot of it to just good fortune, good timing, and old fashioned luck.

Christian Brim (37:37.067)
Well, there's a, I don't know what golfer it's attributed to, but the phrase I'd rather be lucky than good. And, it's true. I'd rather be lucky. Yeah. Yeah. I have a colleague that is pursuing his, he, he sold his company and he is pursuing his doctorate in psychology. and, just listening to what

Bo (37:50.491)
As long as the overall goal is outcome is the same, right?

Christian Brim (38:02.637)
And he before he was an entrepreneur, he was an educator. So he knew what he was getting into as far as the effort that was involved. But that's that is an accomplishment. That's a grind to to get your doctorate in anything. So congratulations on that. Is your wife an entrepreneur?

Bo (38:28.928)
Thank you.

Bo (38:32.812)
No, she's a very artistic, creative type. So she works with pottery and so she enjoys doing that. My daughter's got the entrepreneurial

Christian Brim (38:36.642)
Nice. Yeah, I did.

Christian Brim (38:41.068)
and what's she working on?

Bo (38:48.063)
She works with me and she's always coming up with ideas. She does some like real estate on the side, but she's definitely got it. My son, not yet, I'm not too sure about him. He's 22, he's still finishing up school, college, but he seems to, but he's definitely got the programming bug. That's what he's been doing and focusing on.

Christian Brim (38:57.903)
Right.

Christian Brim (39:05.09)
You can make it a family affair. I do find that strange, not strange, it's unusual that you came from a family of entrepreneurs. mean, usually there's one or the other, you know, mother or father, but it's unusual to two in a family. So you were very fortunate to have that experience, for sure.

Bo (39:12.253)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (39:33.74)
changes your whole worldview. Right. Bo, how do people find you and find your books and bookbud and whatever else?

Bo (39:37.897)
Yeah, I believe so.

Bo (39:41.937)
It was my only worldview. There was no change to it. That's all I knew. Yeah.

Bo (39:56.479)
Well, I have two main websites. If you go to ArchieBoy .com, ArchieBoy .com is my business website where you'll see in the homepage the links to all the different businesses that I run, including Book Bud, Author Voices, Book Marketing Pro, and Science -Based Learning, the whole gamut of the websites I have. And BowBennett .com is my personal website where you're just gonna find all of my books that I've personally written.

Christian Brim (40:16.57)
perfect. Bo, I very much appreciated your time. Thank you very much. You're very gracious.

Bo (40:27.465)
Thank you. Thank you, I appreciate it.