Working with Creative Entrepreneurs | Jeremy Doorn

PROFITABLE TALKS....

In this episode of the Profitable Creative, host Christian Brim speaks with Jeremy Doorn from the Core Group about the importance of relationship management in accounting, particularly for small businesses and creative entrepreneurs. They discuss how understanding financials can transform client relationships, the challenges creatives face, and the benefits of implementing the Profit First methodology. Jeremy shares his personal journey as a musician and how it influences his work with clients, emphasizing the need for organization and understanding of financial numbers in running a successful creative business.

PROFITABLE TAKEAWAYS....

• Understanding financials can transform client relationships.
• Proactive planning is more valuable than reactive accounting.
• Working with small businesses is rewarding and fun.
• Creatives often face cash flow challenges due to payment delays.
• Profit First helps maintain cash flow during slow periods.
• Pricing strategies are crucial for creative services.
• Organization is key for creative entrepreneurs.
• Educating clients on financials is essential.
• Creatives should balance profitable work with passion projects.
• Reading Profit First for Creatives can provide a roadmap for organization.

Ready to turn your PASSION into PROFIT?!? Let's get CREATIVE ➡️
https://www.coregroupus.com/profit-first-for-creatives

Transcript

Christian Brim (00:01.519)
Welcome to another episode of the Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Joining me today is Jeremy Dorn of the Core Group. Jeremy, welcome.

Jeremy Doorn (00:19.778)
Thank you, thank you for having me.

Christian Brim (00:21.799)
well, like you had a choice, right? You got voluntold, right? So tell us a little bit about what you do at Core.

Jeremy Doorn (00:25.411)
Not much. Yes.

Jeremy Doorn (00:34.702)
Well, I don't know if you said I was I'm a relationship manager here at core. Did you say that I didn't? Alright So I'm a relationship manager here at core so I manage Our accounting clients help them understand their financials Manage that relationship. We do tax planning. We do You know some financial planning throughout the year for the business making sure that the numbers are

Christian Brim (00:38.489)
I didn't say that. You said that.

Jeremy Doorn (01:04.77)
where they need to be and if they're not, maybe ways of trying to help them better those numbers.

Christian Brim (01:13.885)
Okay, I remember a client that was talking about his discussions with you and he described them as transformational. Now, I don't know most people, you know, that would listen to the description of what you just said would be transformational. So maybe expound on what you do that

Jeremy Doorn (01:14.797)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (01:42.885)
that is transformational to your clients.

Jeremy Doorn (01:48.328)
I think it's an understanding, teaching them, showing them what the numbers mean, showing them how to potentially save money, showing them different ways of structuring stuff so that it's better for them. Transformational, that is hard to live up to. But I know why.

Christian Brim (02:14.991)
I didn't say it, your client said it.

Jeremy Doorn (02:18.462)
I understand. I really just think it's a matter of helping them make better business decisions based on actual numbers, helping them understand those numbers. And then just the planning. I think the planning, I think a lot of times when you get with an accountant, it's a once a year type thing. Bring me your crap, we do taxes. That's fun. I think it's the proactive, the

Christian Brim (02:44.804)
Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Doorn (02:48.386)
the planning throughout the year that really is what clients are value the most for sure.

Christian Brim (02:56.337)
Well, I'll feed you an answer since I haven't received it yet. Sorry. You're talking about planning in a more general sense for the business and the profitability, not just taxes, correct?

Jeremy Doorn (03:04.606)
That's fine.

Jeremy Doorn (03:16.362)
Yeah, I mean we do we do goal setting beginning of the year I mean second half the year is a lot of tax planning but yeah, I mean if profit planning all that good stuff

Christian Brim (03:27.057)
I know that you made the comment to us when we started doing these quarterly conversations that you were kind of approaching it with like, how are we going to talk about taxes for an hour? And you came back after some of the first meetings and you were like, this is great. We didn't talk about taxes at all.

What do those conversations look like?

Jeremy Doorn (03:59.15)
Like I said, we were super tax focused, but all year long that's not very feasible. So it's really talking about, get into pricing, we get into cash flow issues, profitability issues, all that stuff that comes along for running a business, which is fun. And then the numbers, and then you also get to learn. I've learned so much about

each one of my clients just all the cool work that they end up doing and all the fun stuff that's not part of taxes or accounting. So it's really getting to know these clients, which has been a lot of fun.

Christian Brim (04:40.123)
So why do you work at core doing what you do as opposed to working somewhere else?

Jeremy Doorn (04:47.31)
geez, that's a loaded question. That's a good one. Honestly, when I started here, didn't have a long-term plan. And the more and more I worked here and with working with small business owners, because accounting in general, I don't feel is very fun.

Christian Brim (04:50.233)
Not really. I want an honest answer.

Christian Brim (05:17.188)
Shut your mouth.

Jeremy Doorn (05:18.27)
Yes, shut your mouth. know that's crazy to talk. That's crazy to say but But the more and more I worked with with all these different small businesses and just learning All the cool different things that they do and getting to meet new people and every day is a new day I just I just love it and I Mean we've had this conversation before I you know working for a small business. Maybe there's one out there besides core. I haven't looked

But I could never go back to the corporate world or any sort of big business anywhere. I love that we solve our own issues. I love that it's not super siloed. I love it that we all get to solve issues and help better core rather than just sitting in office and just doing one thing or just.

Yeah, wearing a suit and tie every day. Good lord.

Christian Brim (06:19.185)
Do they still do that? I don't know.

Jeremy Doorn (06:20.426)
I don't know. mean, I'm sure somebody... They do like shirt and tie now. No pants, because it's all online now. It's all... Well, remotely, some people don't. Yes. Yes.

Christian Brim (06:26.639)
You don't wear pants to work. I see. Okay. All right. I got it. All right. Tell us. I know some secrets about you that our listeners don't. Tell us, tell us about Jeremy. Tell us, tell us interesting things about Jeremy and don't make me feed you answers.

Jeremy Doorn (06:40.938)
my god.

Jeremy Doorn (06:49.248)
I'm... So now I'm trying to guess which answers you want. So... We'll start with... I'm an avid snow skier, so... I like to say expert. My wife mostly gets mad that I call myself an expert skier, but I don't know what else to call myself, because I'm... I will put that up against anyone, anywhere...

Christian Brim (06:52.792)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (06:59.61)
Yes?

Christian Brim (07:10.705)
You know what? You named it, you claim it.

Jeremy Doorn (07:18.53)
snow by the way Way better. Yeah, she should understand. She should just see the form and say it's an expert Yes, I Was born in Albuquerque born and raised in Albuquerque, New Mexico One thing you might be fishing for is I was a drummer in a past life with a band. Yes. Yes

Christian Brim (07:18.649)
You're better than she is. Yeah, she's just jealous. She's just jealous.

Christian Brim (07:34.705)
The 505, baby.

Christian Brim (07:43.165)
yes. You know what's fascinating about that fact is every drummer I've known is fidgety as shit. I mean, like they can't sit still. And you're not that way. So like, you know, they're always drumming a beat or you know, why is that?

Jeremy Doorn (07:53.536)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (08:03.747)
Is it in your head and you just don't let it out?

Jeremy Doorn (08:06.976)
I think maybe sometimes I'm reserved because if you ask my friends and if you ask my wife and my kids like when we're driving down the road I'm banging on the steering wheel and like I'm drumming and when I'm running I'm air drumming so I think maybe it's more just a little bit more reserved on when we're on zoom and stuff

Christian Brim (08:25.893)
I see, I see. You don't share that with us. I appreciate it.

Jeremy Doorn (08:29.454)
I try not to get on people's nerves. Yes. And I wasn't, I wasn't like, wasn't a classically trained drummer either, right? So I, buddy called me up when we were 12 and was like, Hey, you're going to, you're to be a part of a, well, he said, we're starting a band. And I said, that's cool. And I, and he said, well, but you're going to be the drummer. And I was like, but I don't know how to play the drums.

Christian Brim (08:33.894)
Yes.

Christian Brim (08:51.547)
Well, you didn't qualify as the singer or the guitar player, so the drummer was what was left.

Jeremy Doorn (08:55.47)
100 % so

that's exactly right, right? But apparently I went and did it and I mean I went and he showed me a couple of things and then he was like well I don't know what else to tell you but go figure this out. Apparently it turns out I have some pretty natural rhythm, pretty good natural rhythm so...

Christian Brim (09:15.109)
Can you dance? I mean, I haven't seen you really dance well, so I don't know that I'd say you have natural rhythm.

Jeremy Doorn (09:22.398)
So So I I do feel like I can dance now I think there's

Christian Brim (09:29.657)
Okay, you just don't let your freak flag fly. That's the problem.

Jeremy Doorn (09:33.952)
I have in the past, I used to do hip hop dance classes with Sara at Lifetime. So I do enjoy it.

Christian Brim (09:35.407)
Okay.

Christian Brim (09:42.313)
okay. All right, well then there's some stuff that I need to see that I haven't seen yet. You were in this band. Tell us about your band journey.

Jeremy Doorn (09:49.892)
Yes, yes, for sure.

Jeremy Doorn (09:57.924)
man, it was... So we... I had moved back to Albuquerque. I was working in California. I moved back to Albuquerque and we started playing... I started playing music with some friends that I had played with back in high school. Just kind of messed around with, whatever. Nothing too serious. And then I moved back to Albuquerque and we were just kind of...

messing around, just kind of playing songs. And some friends came over one night while we were just sitting around, you know, writing some songs. And they were like, this is really good. And we were like, okay, thank you. We didn't really think anything of it. And then the more people kept telling us they really liked the songs, because we didn't really do any covers, it was just writing different songs. No, come on. I mean, I broke drum links. Yeah, I mean, come on.

Christian Brim (10:49.125)
Did you write the songs? Okay. You're the drummer, right?

Jeremy Doorn (10:55.18)
I put licks to them for sure, right? Like, yeah. So, I mean, was, so, I mean, we had the songwriters and then we would all kind of collaborate on how the song needed the different parts of it, whatever. But so we, and it was just jam sessions. Like it wasn't anything special. We didn't think it was anything special. And so then we, I don't, there's this little.

bar across the street from UNM, the University of New Mexico. And none of us had ever played in a bar, done anything real like that. mean, I was part of the praise band at church and like we had done, all the bands when we were in high school. And so like we'd all been in bands, but we had never done like the whole bar band thing. But we're all like, you know, 23 or something at this point. And we're like, you know, maybe that place will let us play. So we went and talked to them and they were like, yeah, sure. You guys can play.

And we were like, okay, I guess we're gonna go play a gig, a gig, right? And so we booked that gig. So we went and played this gig. one of the guys in the band, his wife's girlfriend's friend was one of the radio DJs, local radio DJs, and he was there. And...

So I was terrified and I had been, I had played in front of people before. mean, I had played in bands before, but it was just, it felt so official that we were in this gig. I don't even think we made any money. They just let us come play because we were just playing original stuff. so everybody really enjoyed it, including this guy that was one of the local radio DJs. And so we just started playing all around Albuquerque. And then once we...

Then we decided that we wanted to record our own album So we kind of Created a studio at my buddy's house Yes, and he was he is a computer science and computer science major so and he's like super genius he's now the CTO of bird the little scooters that you ride. Yeah, he's super super smart guy but he

Christian Brim (12:59.683)
Love it.

Christian Brim (13:14.618)
nice.

Jeremy Doorn (13:20.942)
got all the computer stuff as far as like the recording. We bought some decent microphones and whatnot. So we recorded our first album. Once we did that, the guy that was the radio DJ, he was like, hey, get me a song and I'll put it on the radio. And we were like, what? So I remember it. He literally played one of our songs. He brought us in the studio and then he played one of our songs. It was between like, was the Chili Peppers and somebody else. And it was just like, is that our?

freaking song really on the radio right now. Like it was, it was awesome. It was a great feeling. So one thing led to another. We, it was just crazy how things just kept progressing because then we were playing at this one place. They, these owners of this restaurant, bar and grill up in Aztec, New Mexico, which is four foreigners, this random place, but it's huge tourist area. Right. And so

Christian Brim (14:17.605)
Right.

Jeremy Doorn (14:18.19)
they offered us, they offered to pay us, like they were like, we will pay you, I don't know, 500 bucks. We'll put you up in a room. We'll give you all the free booze and food you can eat. And you guys can come up and play. We got this great little venue and we were like, okay. So we go up there and it was crazy. It was packed and we would sell t-shirts. I mean, we'd just sell, it was amazing. It was crazy. So then those people introduced these other people in...

Durango and we ended up playing this battle of the bands up in Durango for St. Patrick's Day. Like we just kept getting these crazy gigs and then eventually we just decided that if we were gonna do something in music at the time, because you couldn't do it like it is now where you just put stuff on the interwebs and do all this fun stuff. We decided that we needed to get out of Albuquerque because there was no music scene. Not much of a music scene, like not to progress.

Christian Brim (15:11.993)
Right.

Jeremy Doorn (15:15.438)
or become rock stars, which we wanted. We all had college degrees. It was like, you know what, let's just go give this a shot. Probably should have gone to Austin or somewhere, but we decided LA because I have family there and well, it's a long story, but there was a guy, there's a producer that we ended up working with that professionally recorded one of our tracks and he was awesome and he was moving out to LA. So we were like, well, we'll try to follow him and follow in his coattails. Didn't really work out very well.

But we so we moved out to LA tried to be rock stars and that's where that dream ended.

Christian Brim (15:49.787)
So what was the name of the band?

Jeremy Doorn (15:52.768)
evading Alistair But the first the first gig which I was really excited about the first gig We our name we went under snow day because who doesn't love a snow day, right? It's a great band name, but we end up changing it

Christian Brim (15:54.638)
evading Alistair.

Christian Brim (16:05.487)
I like that, yeah. So is your album available, like Spotify, Apple Music, anything?

Jeremy Doorn (16:13.518)
It's on iTunes, Yes. I mean, so back in the day, I don't know how they do it now, but back in the day, you'd have to get on, we had to put the album on, I don't remember what it was called, and then you had to sell like 200 albums or something, and then iTunes would pick you up and you could put it on iTunes, right? And so then I guess we eventually made it to iTunes. I mean, we literally didn't make any money, I promise.

Christian Brim (16:16.367)
Nice.

Jeremy Doorn (16:42.838)
and we still continue to not make any money because nobody's buying it. But it's pretty cool. It's pretty cool that it's still on iTunes and I can go show my kids that it's there, which is a lot of fun. Yeah.

Christian Brim (16:46.841)
I'm going to go play it.

Christian Brim (16:54.885)
Yes. So you've been with Core for a while and here before we really leaned into the creative industries as target customers. So you've got experience working with a lot of different types of businesses. Why do you like working for creatives or with creatives?

Jeremy Doorn (17:22.322)
I mean the quick answer is they're just a lot of fun. Like they just do really cool stuff. Like it's almost, it's almost, it's almost like I'm living vicariously through my clients, right? Like, like I wanted to become a rock star. I never really got to become a rock star, but some of these guys, all the stuff that these guys are doing, it's just like, it's so cool to hear about. Like it's super exciting.

Christian Brim (17:36.218)
okay.

Jeremy Doorn (17:49.606)
To me to hear all the cool stuff that they're doing and it's a and it's it's also opened my eyes to holy moly. There's like And this is this goes back to why I continue to work at core is that there's just this never-ending my gosh, somebody does that for a business that makes money doing it. Like I didn't even know that was a thing There's so many things out there and it's just endless, right? And so they're they're just a lot of fun and I think that they you know

Christian Brim (18:11.695)
Right.

Jeremy Doorn (18:18.604)
I'm not a classically trained accountant either. So I don't do the accountant speak super well. And so these clients really don't want the accountant speak. And so I think it's just this match made. Like it's just lovely. Like it's amazing to talk to them. Lovely. I know I just use that word on a podcast. Great. Yeah. All credibility gone. It was lovely. Yeah, I did that.

Christian Brim (18:34.039)
Lovely. Lovely. You just used the word lovely. Lovely.

It was lovely. It was lovely. So, yes you did. What do you find to be some of the common challenges the creatives encounter?

Jeremy Doorn (18:49.048)
Yeah.

Jeremy Doorn (19:00.523)
Yeah, so I think it's twofold. think there's probably like financially, and I think most businesses run into cashflow issues, but I think that's one of the challenges, but I think it's the biggest issue is the way that these guys get paid. A lot of them get paid, right? They go do work for these massive companies.

Christian Brim (19:21.585)
Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Doorn (19:28.354)
but they've got to float all of the costs upfront and they get paid 90 days. And there's like no way to get paid earlier. There's some clients that do nonprofit work that have built businesses that take like 50 % upfront and then whatever. But I think a lot of these guys just end up having to eat it. And it's fine if you've got like a continuous flow of invoices, but the second the market drops for a second, you've got two or three months with no invoices, then it's like,

Christian Brim (19:32.612)
Right.

Jeremy Doorn (19:57.568)
Okay, and then even when it comes back, you're still waiting 60 or 90 days to get the cash back in and you're having to float that. So I think that that's one issue that I hear constantly across the board. And then I think, I think, I think on a more personal level, I think it's a matter of balancing that, wanting to do super profitable work, but maybe it's not super fun because it's not really getting

Christian Brim (20:01.167)
Right, right.

Christian Brim (20:26.155)
Mm. Right.

Jeremy Doorn (20:26.232)
their creative juices flowing, right? And then having side projects to do to keep that creativeness going. Because that's really what they're all about is being creative. And sometimes you've got to take work that maybe you don't love, but you got to pay the bills.

Christian Brim (20:43.235)
Right, right. So how with clients that you've worked with, with Profit First, how have you seen Profit First change their businesses?

Jeremy Doorn (20:57.49)
So I so because profit first works on a percentage basis, I mean it really does it really does help them focus on like just paying stuff out of the operate op op ex account or saving for taxes or Having operating capital on hand for those slower periods, right? And so so you can kind of build up those those you can build up cash for those gaps where they might

Christian Brim (21:19.408)
Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Doorn (21:25.422)
Because this industry, although, well, I say industry in a broad sense, like when I talk about videographers, I don't feel like, we've talked about it before, they're almost recession-proof, right? Because people are gonna have to keep marketing, they're gonna have to continue doing social media, whatever. But there is downturns and there's ebb and flow. you can tell, I'll get on calls and like,

I'll have my quarterly calls and I'll get on two or three calls and it'll be like, yeah, everybody just, nobody's spending money right now. And I'll be like, well, it's going to be that kind of quarter. you'll see it across the board. Mostly it's like, you know, people are pulling back marketing budgets or whatever. They're just not spending. And so I think probably first helps just keep that cashflow there for those times when you get those EPS and flows. Yeah.

Christian Brim (22:20.143)
Yes, yes, I would agree 100%. Have you seen where ProfitFirst, implementing ProfitFirst, gave them insight into their profitability and they were able to change something in their business that...

Christian Brim (22:43.995)
that was transformational. By implementing Profit First, they realized, I'm not making as much money as I should have or could have, and using it to fix that.

Jeremy Doorn (23:00.959)
So I have a client right now that's big in a profit first and I think she's realizing now that like her percentages where she came up with them were fine. The way that she came up with them was fine and it was almost according to the book. But now she's realizing she's probably going to have to tailor that because her operating expenses are far exceeding what she's saying that her target is.

Christian Brim (23:13.265)
Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Doorn (23:29.152)
And so, but her tax account is a lot more than she actually thought it was going to be or her old accountant told her that it was going to be. She's a newer client. And so I think, so she's really now starting to move those, we're going to start moving those allocations differently to help benefit her more as far as having those match what's actually going on in the business and then being able to.

Christian Brim (23:29.232)
Right?

Christian Brim (23:50.896)
Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Doorn (23:58.466)
You know, because she's just smaller business. It's she can only cut so far, you know, so.

Christian Brim (24:03.599)
Yes. Well, and that leads to my favorite topic, pricing. So what, what do you, what conversations do you have with your clients around pricing?

Jeremy Doorn (24:17.006)
So I two, well, not two, probably more than that. around pricing, there's guys out there that are trying to do like an agency type, like recurring model of like, what do they call it? Like a retainer type deal, like a monthly retainer or whatever, right? And there's guys that are shooting for that. that's obviously, from an accounting standpoint, that's great for cashflow.

Christian Brim (24:34.352)
Mm-hmm.

Right, right.

Jeremy Doorn (24:46.938)
All that good stuff, right? And then there's another set of my clients that wouldn't do a retainer if they had to because they call it retainer creep or something. Where you do a retainer and bless you, I saw it coming, bless you. Where you do a retainer and then clients just kind of take advantage of you and then you feel like you can't, yeah, yeah, right? And so...

Christian Brim (25:05.297)
Excuse me.

Christian Brim (25:12.217)
Right, scope creep, yeah.

Jeremy Doorn (25:17.146)
I think both models can work. You just have to when you're doing the when you're doing the retainer, you've got to make sure that you're pricing it for what you're worth. And if they have extra stuff, you got to bill them for it. Like you've got to you've got to you got to make sure you're billing that.

Christian Brim (25:34.075)
How do you use Profit First to have that conversation?

Jeremy Doorn (25:40.952)
I don't know that I have used Profit First to have that conversation.

Christian Brim (25:45.871)
Okay. Fair enough.

Christian Brim (25:52.793)
We'll edit that question out.

Jeremy Doorn (25:54.338)
Yeah, it's funny. It's the beauty of this. Yes, I love it.

Christian Brim (25:58.458)
Yes.

If you were going to give one piece of advice to creative entrepreneurs, and it doesn't necessarily have to be around finances, but that is your area of expertise, what would that one piece of advice be? Without knowing anything about the company, this is just like a general but most important thing, like you need to get this right first.

Jeremy Doorn (26:32.606)
And they're gonna they're not gonna want to hear this but But I think it's a matter of getting organized I think that you know when we bring on new clients when new people are coming to us there they're just so disorganized and so you've got to get it organized whether it's Them getting it organized or somebody like core having them organize it for them or some other accounting firm or whatever You've got to get organized. You've got to you've

Christian Brim (26:35.322)
Of course not.

Christian Brim (26:48.424)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (26:54.683)
Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Doorn (27:00.846)
You've got to know the numbers. You don't have to be an accountant. That's why I tell people all the time, I'm going to teach you what this stuff means. You don't need to go be an accountant. That's what I get paid for. But you do as a business owner have to understand some of this. So I would say get organized and at least educate yourself a little bit on what the numbers actually mean. And that's why we do what we do is because that's what

Christian Brim (27:06.125)
Right.

Jeremy Doorn (27:28.098)
That's the role that we play is getting them organized and helping them understand their numbers, right?

Christian Brim (27:32.089)
I think that's solid advice. And I think a great place to start in getting organized is reading profit first for creatives because that lays it out in a roadmap for you of what you need to do to get organized.

Jeremy Doorn (27:45.824)
Agreed. Agreed. For sure.

Christian Brim (27:48.441)
Jeremy, I appreciate your time. I usually at this point ask the guest how to reach you, but you just call core and ask for the rock star and everybody will know that you're talking about Jeremy and they will connect you. Yes. But thank you for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you for your insights. Listeners, if you like what you've heard, please rate.

Jeremy Doorn (28:01.506)
you

That's obvious.

Christian Brim (28:14.929)
the podcast, subscribe to the podcast, share the podcast with other creatives. If you don't like the content, shoot us a message and tell us what you'd like to hear. Until then, ta ta for now.