The Power of Creativity in Marketing | Jon Weberg

PROFITABLE TALKS...

In this episode, Christian Brim interviews John Weberg, founder of Profit-a-lize, about turning passion into profit. John shares his journey from starting a gaming blog at the age of 12 to becoming a successful digital marketer and consultant. They discuss the importance of understanding the value of money, pricing strategies, and the power of creativity in marketing. John emphasizes the need to entertain, educate, and entice customers through engaging content and personalized marketing. He also highlights the significance of contracts and proper deal structuring in business partnerships.


PROFITABLE TAKEAWAYS...

• Understand the value of money and how it can be scarce or abundant depending on your mindset.
• Don't be afraid to charge higher prices for your products or services, as it can attract more committed and higher-quality customers.
• Focus on entertaining and educating your audience in your marketing and sales process to build strong relationships and long-term customers.
• Consider different pricing options for larger deals, such as upfront payments, residual income, or equity.
• Always have contracts in place to protect yourself and clearly define the terms of any business partnership.

Ready to turn your PASSION into PROFIT?!? Let's get CREATIVE ➡️
https://www.coregroupus.com/profit-first-for-creatives

Transcript

Christian Brim (00:01.46)
Welcome to another episode of the Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Joining me today is John Weberg with Profit -a -lize. John, welcome.

Jon Weberg (00:19.886)
Thanks so much for having me. appreciate it and I cannot wait to spit some value for your people.

Christian Brim (00:24.87)
I'm, I'm, I'm eager. So tell us the short version of, what you do and how you got here.

Jon Weberg (00:34.788)
I help businesses take their current business model and make it a lot more profitable by optimizing the conversion rates, lead generation rates, lead to sale rates, customer retention, and a lot more. And how I got here, I'll really, summarize it real shortly is I was around 12 years old and I saw my dad start digital marketing. I decided to begin pursuing it at that age. And I kind of started a lifestyle.

Christian Brim (00:58.966)
day.

Jon Weberg (01:04.26)
that was portrayed by traveling entrepreneurs, you name it. And I wanted that because we come from a pretty poor background. And I decided I was going to double down. And for about 12 to 15, I had a gaming blog. I dabbled, wasn't making money, just was approaching learning about business at a very, very basic level. Right, right. So I couldn't even conceptualize probably a lot of the different ideas and how things worked. And around 15, I decided to

Christian Brim (01:22.134)
Well, you were 12 for God's sake.

Jon Weberg (01:33.412)
Begin making money with it. Start with affiliate marketing, launch my own business, work my only job at Walmart. I worked out for six months, took all the money from Walmart, put it into my beginning first business of my own, failed miserably, lost all the money I saved from Walmart. Went back to affiliate marketing, then 18 to 21, started seeing more success, doing well, started speaking, traveling, et cetera. 21 to now 26, more towards consulting, more towards services and just.

focusing on helping businesses kind of hyper -optimize for maximum profits across everything they do.

Christian Brim (02:09.888)
So, okay, what was the business you had that failed?

Jon Weberg (02:13.694)
it was a all inclusive marketing, sales, advertising, business training center. cause I, yeah, I always had the idea. It is still exists. I always had the idea that what if there was one place you could go to, learn anything you wanted to go to the business. So I want to learn about running ads. want to learn about email marketing. I want to learn about advertising, how to get on podcast SEO, all of these different skill sets, but there really wasn't one unified place to go to.

Christian Brim (02:22.13)
Okay.

Christian Brim (02:43.594)
Right?

Jon Weberg (02:43.908)
So I figured why not create it myself now again being 15 my knowledge base to build off of

Christian Brim (02:51.702)
It was a limited, a little limited.

Jon Weberg (02:53.984)
a little slightly limited. So even the marketing for it, of course, was pretty atrocious. The education was not bad for the time. It wasn't bad for for the time yet. But yeah, I just didn't know enough about how to generate leads, how to build the proper sales process, how to follow up enough. And I just didn't do good for a variety of reasons.

Christian Brim (03:16.47)
Well, you, you, again, you can be forgiven because you were 15. I think that's awesome that you started that journey so early and you, mentioned your dad. of the, one of the questions I like to ask creative entrepreneurs is what did you learn about money growing up?

Jon Weberg (03:36.031)
I learned, what did I learn about money? Well, one, what I learned originally is that it's very scarce. It's very hard to make. It's very difficult to keep, you know. It was something that my parents argued about 24 seven. At one point our family lived in someone else's basement and welfare apartment. So I was unplugging nightlights because I'm like, if it saves them just a little bit less money, you know, or more money, they'll stop. They'll stop arguing and whatever else.

Christian Brim (03:44.139)
Hmm.

Mm

Christian Brim (03:50.933)
Right?

Christian Brim (04:02.737)
Ugh. Right.

Jon Weberg (04:03.81)
Yeah, it was, was, it was rough, but I also learned that if you work hard, you can have a very successful business, very successful life and accrue money very freely. So my parents, you know, my dad worked three jobs, my mom worked two jobs and they worked their asses off to get us out of that situation that we were in. So I did learn to work hard, to work smart and to always strive to make as much as you can.

Christian Brim (04:26.806)
Mm -hmm.

Christian Brim (04:31.648)
So did any of those financial habits translate into your business when you started?

Jon Weberg (04:40.256)
I think definitely being very scruple, being very careful and cautious with how you spend it. Now I've learned to dilute and get rid of that habit. You know, of course I, you want to spend smartly in business and be very careful with where you're allocating money for advertising, for your team, et cetera, different things. But I think it's still a me a bit just because also as well from hiring different agencies, working with different people throughout the years.

Christian Brim (04:46.475)
Yeah.

Jon Weberg (05:09.796)
I've learned that there's less people than I thought who are really, really truly great at what they do. And if you're going to hire someone, you really do want to find the best of the best and not be afraid to spend that extra money to get the best of the best. Cause otherwise your, your, your money's going to be spent waste with someone who can't actually get you the results you're looking for. mean, recently we, it's been about two years now, we learned a $60 ,000 mistake we call it because we hired two SEO agencies.

Because over the years we've run paid ads, we've done organic, we've done a variety of different things during leads. We never dabbled with SEO and we knew that SEO if done right, can create a limitless free stream of leads and customers permanently. So, you know, that sounds nice. So we hired both these agencies and unfortunately, over the course of six months of spending $60 ,000, they produced zero growth of traffic on our website.

Christian Brim (05:47.78)
Mm

Christian Brim (05:55.947)
Mm -hmm.

Jon Weberg (06:08.992)
So for anyone, that's a pretty big ouch. That's a huge ouch. with that, again, we've learned to number one, take more time. I think it's more important to take more time and really research where your money's being spent with who and really, really spending time seeing if they are really of the quality they claim they are. mean, really deep dive on testimonials, really deep dive on the results they've generated for their clients.

and learn as much about people as possible. If you're going to hire an agency, you're going to hire a consultant, you name it.

Christian Brim (06:45.652)
Yeah, I think one of the things that I've come to realize is whether it's paid or SEO or social, know, we're all kind of beholden to these companies that we can't control and they're not going to tell us the secret sauce because that's how they make their money. And I think it leads to unscrupulous vendors for sure.

Jon Weberg (07:12.984)
Yes.

Christian Brim (07:14.398)
I think there are ones that have good intention, but it's, it's like more like, alchemy. We're not sure how this works. We're just going to kind of put some things together that worked in the past and right.

Jon Weberg (07:24.648)
Right. Throw some and hopefully it works for your business model, which I think that also was a part of the issue is we figured because they've worked with local businesses that it would work for us as well. But local and global SEO are two completely different monsters like entirely. So I think it was definitely an art part and you're I think you're also right. Some of them, they do have good intentions, but they actually

Christian Brim (07:42.133)
Yes.

Jon Weberg (07:51.106)
I think unfortunately don't know enough themselves or haven't actually been successful themselves. So they're just doing their best with what they kind of have at the time.

Christian Brim (08:00.032)
Yeah. So talking about, you know, the value of money when you grew up, did any of that affect your ability to price or obtain profit in the business?

Jon Weberg (08:18.276)
I think initially, especially, you know, we were very wary of increasing pricing, charging a lot for our services, charging a lot for what we did. I mean, I remember when I was 18, maybe I was 17, 17, 18, and I charged like $800 to build an entire website funnel sales process emails. I was willing to do anything. If you've got some money for me, I'll do whatever you need. the Bangladesh money in America.

Christian Brim (08:43.85)
You're talking Bangladesh money there. Yes. Yeah. Yes.

Jon Weberg (08:48.676)
And it's because yeah, you're, you're afraid, especially when you're first getting started. I feel like people are afraid to lose the client, lose the customer and rightfully so, especially if you at the time need that money or it would really help out with different things. So I think that was a part of it. And also it just is scary for people almost like public speaking is scary for people. It's scary to go, well, I can charge two, three, five, $10 ,000 for, or more for what I do.

it, but it's a, it's a, it should be a push, I believe for most people, because as we've kind of walked through, and in my mind, most of the people who are helping businesses grow or who are performing any services aren't actually like the absolute best in the world. So as long as you are somewhat competent and you really do your best to help a customer or client, you're going to do a pretty good job in

you probably should get paid at least somewhere in the range that you're thinking you would like to because you can do better or equivalent of people who are charging a lot more who are actually doing and performing at a lot lower level.

Christian Brim (09:57.718)
That's true. Pricing is one of those things that just fascinates me. And I think the thing that fascinates me most about it is that a lot of the value that someone perceives is based upon what they pay. In other words, if they pay a lot, they see a lot of value in it. If they don't pay very much, they don't think it's worth much.

Jon Weberg (09:58.883)
you

Jon Weberg (10:20.534)
absolutely. A hundred percent. And that's what it's another important thing to realize is that when you charge more, let's just say you will get less clients, but you're going to get to me more importantly, clients that also, what usually comes with higher pricing that are less of a headache that aren't going to charge back that you're not going to have a lot of problems with. And that will be more committed to the process because of the perceived value. They also, I believe perceive.

much work you're putting into it to be more significant and they want to put more effort into that relationship as well. So it's definitely a move a lot more people need to make. Especially for example like agencies or consultants that have been charging let's say three to five to seven thousand dollars a month or more even charging for months or years the same pricing move it up 10 20 percent you'll probably see the exact same conversion rate or remotely closely and get a better client possibly.

Christian Brim (10:52.331)
Sure.

Christian Brim (11:12.382)
Yeah, well and.

Christian Brim (11:18.742)
And I say in the last three years, the inflation problem in the United States, if you haven't raised your prices, you're going backwards for sure. Cause your costs are going up.

Jon Weberg (11:33.814)
entirely. Your costs are going up. Plus ads are getting, especially with like advertising. I would say, especially over the last year or two, I've seen a lot of agencies, a lot of people panicking over ad prices going up because of many different reasons. Surely media companies, sure. Different things happening in the market, different things happening throughout the world. There's been a few different global things happening in the world. most people have noticed that does affect it affects people's

Christian Brim (11:58.345)
Right. Right.

Jon Weberg (12:03.876)
You got to think of someone's looking to spend two, three, five, $10 ,000 and everything for them is more expensive. Making a choice to go to the business when they can make a choice to conserve or make other decisions is definitely impacted.

Christian Brim (12:15.541)
Yes.

Uncertainty causes fear and fear makes people sit on their hands and, you know, all different situations, but definitely business and money. yeah, I, I know, you know, there was the, sag, strike and, and the screenwriters guild strike and there was a tough.

eating for a lot of people in that space. And even it kind of trickled over for videographers in general and production companies, even, you know, doing commercial videos. It's like everybody started sitting on their hands, you know, 18 months ago. it, it, it's, it's a challenge. okay. So I'm going to pivot here a minute. What would you, in your area of expertise, which is

affiliate marketing. What is your go -to advice? You just came back from Budapest speaking on the subject. What's the information that people that are in that space need to know?

Jon Weberg (13:32.856)
I would say it'll actually go on the focus of creative too. And this also, I would say applies to B2B, B2C, no matter what you're doing. And additionally, it applies to your advertising, your sales process, your follow -up, every part of your business. think being creative and standing out and knowing how to properly create a real reaction and emotion within your audience across all those different elements.

is huge, especially with AI, you know, until AI gets good enough that it can instantly design a business that converts better and optimizes better and does all these different things, which is happening very quickly. I think what temporarily is going to perform exceptionally well is a very human personal one -on -one humorous, fun, exciting touch. And that's what most businesses, especially in the B2B world, but in the B2C too, are so afraid to do. They're so afraid to show their personality.

because it is unprofessional quote unquote. They're so afraid of doing these different things that they, they, they're constantly bleeding out their profits because they aren't willing to do what is the thing that will make them stand out. And if they're marketing, they're advertising their sales, the fallout stands out. That's what makes people want to pull their attention to them. And that's what abstracts them from competitors and truly brings more people over. One of the specific ways to do this that I talked about in Budapest,

And this applies more so to follow up and email marketing, also to affiliate marketing and across an entire business is in my mind, you have to relate in three different main ways. And you have to kind of follow the foundational process of marketing. is you have to entertain or draw in someone's attention. You have to educate or nurture that attention. And then you have to entice or turn that attention towards an offer and generate a customer.

Christian Brim (15:30.912)
Mm

Jon Weberg (15:30.936)
And the vast majority of all ads you see everywhere and all marketing and all fall open, all sales only is enticing. It's always focusing on buy now. We are the best. have a good offer. Here's some bonuses, et cetera. And you're skipping the process of these two first ones, even though these are the most important because they are what brings the most amount of people in and build the relationship that allows people to become long -term buyers over time. So I prescribe to people that in your

Christian Brim (15:46.122)
Mm -hmm.

Jon Weberg (16:00.852)
ads in your follow up in your sales process, but especially in follow up, because that's where you're constantly able to have communication with leads and with customers focus actually a lot more on those first two elements being entertaining and educating because while you're running a business and while it may be, maybe even could be very profitable, there was so much more profitability in the long -term nurturing and management of those leads and the long -term nurturing and management of your customers.

Christian Brim (16:15.721)
Mm -hmm.

Jon Weberg (16:31.352)
That if you focus more on that, let's just say you'll generate even let's just say you'll generate less immediate customers, the longterm customers and longterm lead to generate will vastly outnumber. You know, the initial, the initial shock. And that's what people are so focused on because of the market, because of expensive ads, because everything going on, they want results now, now, now, now they want their front end other business to perform right now. And that was a big thing in Budapest. As a lot of people I talked to.

are and it hurt my heart, know, they go, I don't do much email marketing. like, but that's where the vast majority of your money actually is. Like every study across marketing shows email marketing and follow up is by far in over the past like 10, 20 years is the highest performing marketing channel. There is by multiple times.

Christian Brim (17:22.355)
Would you say that in doing that entertainment and education that you're, you're actually building the value of the customer to your business.

Jon Weberg (17:26.904)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Jon Weberg (17:37.54)
entirely entirely. And you're, and you're building a genuine relationship and you're again, I think all marketing the purpose is to cause emotion. So if you take a look at like the Harmon brothers ads for like Dr. Squatch or squatty potty, which by the way, the Harmon brothers run your ads to minimum of a million dollars upfront. And they take like 20 or 30 % of your business for the life of that product because they're, but it's because they're creative is so good because

Christian Brim (17:50.485)
Mm -hmm.

Christian Brim (17:57.833)
Oof.

Christian Brim (18:01.685)
Oof.

Jon Weberg (18:06.956)
Again, their marketing angles are the first thing they want to do is relate and build a connection to your business. So even like right now I'm talking about them because they're branding, because the imagery in their ads and their marketing is so amazing that it outperforms everything in the marketplace. Even though these are big businesses that are making hundreds of millions of dollars, they create, you know, ads for it's not professional as you would think, but it out converts everything else. Another good example is, he, Ryan Reynolds for people.

Christian Brim (18:35.914)
Yes.

Jon Weberg (18:36.74)
For people who don't know, which you probably know, is Ryan Reynolds, literally with his creative strategy in advertising and marketing and everything he does for a business, can jump into a business, create their ads, create their marketing for them, and instantly raise the profitability enough that he can put a bunch of money into them, do that, and then sell it and immediately generate tens of millions of dollars or more.

Christian Brim (18:59.252)
Now, would you classify that as affiliate marketing, Ryan Reynolds?

Jon Weberg (19:06.264)
I mean, technically I'm sure what he does is he probably does take a portion of the business, which would be similar to affiliate marketing because you're collecting a percent of the total commission of the sales being generated. I mean, partially, what I'm saying kind of does apply across different avenues. but even in affiliate marketing, if you're doing affiliate marketing, referring customers to an agency or to a different product and service, it still applies. Cause whether you're in affiliate marketing or not, you're still following the same process of you need to generate leads.

You need to somehow nurture and educate those or yeah, nurture, educate and entertain those leads, build a strong enough connection. And you're still referring them to a business or customer base and audience. But initially where they're at with you and your brand still is very, very meaningful.

Christian Brim (19:54.42)
Yeah. And, and I, it's, it's crazy to me. then, you know, I, I go back to celebrity endorsements before the digital age where, know, just because Joe Namath said this was the best beer, people would buy it. And it's like, well, what makes Joe Namath the expert on beer? Absolutely nothing. and I, I find this affiliate

Jon Weberg (20:05.186)
Mm

Jon Weberg (20:18.244)
absolutely nothing.

Christian Brim (20:23.342)
model interesting because of how that trust transfers from, from Joe Namath to, I don't know who he marketed beer for. don't even know if he marketed beer. doesn't matter. but you know, how, how can he take his, his trust that he has as a football player? I guess. mean, like, I don't know what that trust is, but it's, but it is the connection, right? It is the, it, it, they,

Jon Weberg (20:33.988)
Mm

Jon Weberg (20:45.016)
right.

Christian Brim (20:52.842)
They trust him because they know him, right?

Jon Weberg (20:54.912)
Yes, I think that's also with like also with like influencers in kind of that space. It's also familiarity. And if you establish a strong enough brand, you can sell anything remotely with consistency. Again, this look at anyone who's ever endorsed anything in that, like you're saying has no expertise in the area, no knowledge, etc. It's like, why does this make sense? It's just because they've built such a good, which is a part of I never believed in branding.

Christian Brim (20:58.76)
Mm -hmm. Yes.

Jon Weberg (21:24.468)
like the first eight years of being a business, I'm like branding is a joke. Branding is real. It's like this this weird concept I didn't quite understand. But branding because of creative in this branding in general is actually huge because it's like for example like why I talk about like Frank Kern. Frank Kern is my digital marketing OG and he is one of the first kind of digital marketing thought leaders of sorts. And Frank because he has such

humor because he's again, all these again, it's a lot of actually, I believe the first two elements I called them the three E's he's so entertaining in his content is so good and educating his training and everything it talks about that because he follows these two factors, you naturally want to follow the third and be enticed and buy from him. And that's what these influencers and affiliate marketers do that are successful is you focus on those first two and that's really all marketing is is gathering attention.

and then nurturing that attention and bring it to a product product that helps the customer and then repeat, repeat, repeat, learn how to increase retention and you are good to go.

Christian Brim (22:29.638)
It reminds me of a conversation I had a couple of months ago with a, agency for influencers, which he was saying, he and his wife started this agency six years ago and you know, six years ago, said there wasn't an industry for, agents for influencers, but what, what he said was that when he started, if you didn't have a hundred thousand followers, couldn't

Jon Weberg (22:35.778)
Mm -hmm. Mm.

Christian Brim (22:58.23)
really get enough volume to make any difference as far as monetizing that. But he said, it's now down to where you can have a small following like 30 or 40 ,000 if they're engaged. And I see this trend where people are kind of like micro grouping around

you know, either, either lifestyles or interests or things that they're the, the, the illicit emotion. and it, it's, it's like all of the products and services may have nothing to do with each other, but that that's, that's what's tying them together and that's what's allowing them to be successful.

Jon Weberg (23:51.222)
Right. It's close enough to the same idea that they can promote and do it. No worries. And I think also, yeah, I've also seen and heard that that now sometimes actually people with very, very large followings have no success or a little success depending on one relativity of the product and service to them. But also I think really is the engaged, the very engaged audience. which is why maybe like what you're saying is the smaller

smaller followings of me say it's 10 ,000, 20 ,000, 30 ,000. They're not huge, but they're so much more engaged because they're coming up because they're probably working harder for their audience to generate them and to grow them and to nurture them because they're not at this big enough level where they think they can just produce content and be fine. that's where there's also a lot of opportunity too. I think it's like micro influencers or something. I've heard that term or similar terms of working with these smaller audiences and they're just

They're way more engaged and care more about their, they have a smaller group, but more intensely involved in that area of expertise or in that brand or in that influencer, et cetera. Sure.

Christian Brim (25:04.106)
I'm going to pivot again back to money. What has been, and you've been doing this a long time, although you're relatively young, what has been the biggest financial challenge for you in running a business?

Jon Weberg (25:11.022)
Mm

Jon Weberg (25:26.58)
say mainly on trying to structure larger deals and pricing I said I would say pricing larger deals has been difficult because depending on the company size it's hard to gauge how much percent I think mainly percent of a deal you should charge so say for example

Christian Brim (25:31.968)
Okay, so pricing larger deals is...

Christian Brim (25:49.504)
Mm -hmm.

Jon Weberg (25:52.58)
there is a SAS tool, like an email marketing service, like an auto responder. And I've done this before and I've reached out and said, Hey, I would love to design a course for your service that you offer internally as your own product. Because a lot of, a lot of agencies, for example, have their main service and then they have nothing to downsell or resell. They just keep bringing back people to their main service and they're missing out on 50 to 70 % of the customers who would probably buy.

Christian Brim (25:57.267)
Mm

Christian Brim (26:08.566)
Okay.

Jon Weberg (26:22.07)
course that wouldn't be the service, but that taught them the same things they could run for themselves on their own. And the same applies, for example, to an autoresponder. They have this monthly recurring service. Obviously that's amazing, but they're missing out on more profitability by offering something else in -house that they could structure for their audience that they'd still want that could even still bring people back to their service. So I think pricing that has been pretty hard because

You don't want to be too greedy and really, really turn off a business or turn off a company because too higher percentage, you know, to some like I've, I've considered doing percent of equity in a company. I didn't know initially, for example, I reached out to a business and wanted to work with them. And I thought like 5 % equity was okay. And the equity world 5 % from what I know is crazy. It depends on, it depends on the valuation.

Christian Brim (27:17.936)
It depends on the valuation, but yeah.

Jon Weberg (27:21.476)
something big enough, know, they're more like 1%, 2%, 3 % kind of was like a, a max for depending on how you're involved with the company. so that was kind of a big mistake is not spending enough time actually learning how to structure bigger deals. And I'm still kind of, I think learning that over time. and then also partnerships, for example, with like a SaaS company worth the agency, figuring out what percentage

Do I do percentage of lifetime customers who buy this offer? Do I do you pay me $50 ,000 or a hundred thousand dollars upfront and you collect 100 % of it or I do 25 ,000 or 10 ,000 upfront. And then maybe I get 20 % and you guys get 80%. I've dabbled. I dabbled with, with many different ways. I've started doing, think offering two or three actually.

I'm open to them all because I, know, bigger partnerships are a lot more equitable and a lot bigger deals. So trying to find any way to negotiate and communicate with them in a way that won't be offensive or that isn't like, you have no idea what you're doing or we're not really sure about this. so usually I, I'll do like one of those kinds of three options, either a lot of money upfront, some upfront and a smaller. Percent.

Or let's just do percentage. keep some, you keep some call it good, call it a wash. so that's still those, is a process figuring out with who, how much to do, et cetera.

Christian Brim (29:00.65)
Yeah, I think, you know, my brother, would say my younger brother, I would say loosely is investments and investments. but the, thing that just blows me away about this guy is he can sit down, listen to a conversation, listen to the players that are involved and instantly figure out.

how he can insert himself into that and make money. And he understands it intuitively. And I think for most of us, I can't do that, it's important to really understand the economics of everything's going on and the risk of both parties. So, know, in your three pricing option there, one of the...

Jon Weberg (29:31.662)
Right.

Christian Brim (29:57.136)
really what you're doing with those three options is you're assuming, you are assuming different levels of risk, right? So getting my money upfront and no residual is no risk versus I'm not going to get any money upfront and I'm just going to get paid residual is all the risk. And I think I've seen that go bad because people don't

Jon Weberg (30:07.564)
Yes.

Jon Weberg (30:14.133)
Mm

Jon Weberg (30:19.586)
Mm

Christian Brim (30:27.284)
really understand the risk and they haven't analyzed that through to say, okay, what am I really risking here? And is the, is the juice worth the squeeze? Am I getting compensated for that risk? Right.

Jon Weberg (30:31.074)
Mm

Jon Weberg (30:38.284)
Right, right, right. Entirely. And I also, I advise people who are going into this kind of Avenue contracts for big deals. Necessary. Absolutely. I recently made a big mistake. There was a very large affiliate network. One of the most successful in my space. We did not sign a contract. It was all this verbal and you know, you think you can, you cannot operate on that at all. So time comes for launch.

Christian Brim (30:49.69)
yes.

Jon Weberg (31:07.052)
I build everything out. We're good to go. I think on my end, it's perfect. This is going to be a great deal for both on the run. Deafening silence, deafening silence. And I went, I knew, and it's always like, I know I should do this, but you know, if you no, no, no, no, no, no, no, big deals, especially partnerships and different things don't play around. You need a contract, a very defined, exact, no wiggle room, very fair.

Fair is good, fair contract specifying exactly who's going to get what, how it's going to work. if they're going to promo, if you're going to promo, et cetera. think that was also one of my learning curves for, for a recent almost partnership for sure.

Christian Brim (31:54.002)
Yeah, absolutely. Because yeah, nobody likes lawyers until you need them. Right. But, you know, you, you go through one or two of those deals where you get sideways and you learn your lesson for sure.

Jon Weberg (32:11.108)
Yeah, 100 % right away because you go, well, if I would have just spent a little more time and a little more money, we could have not had this entire thing fall apart.

Christian Brim (32:20.938)
Yeah. And I, and I see way too many people trying to do it themselves. I'm like, do not try to do contracts yourself. Pay the money, hire an attorney.

Jon Weberg (32:32.278)
Yes, especially because the fine tune of the language. I've read through it. I've made some and I've looked at very specifically, you know, a change of one or two words could change. I mean, truly a lot.

Christian Brim (32:45.129)
Yeah.

Yeah. I will give this advice. My experience is, because I deal with a lot of attorneys with my clients and, you know, they always want to go to the attorney first. I'm like, you know, let's get some of these big questions answered. because attorneys just by default are going to want to talk about all the options and all the different ways you could do it.

Jon Weberg (33:15.193)
Mm

Christian Brim (33:17.832)
And it's, it's a hell of a lot cheaper if you've, you've already come up with a deal structure that you think you want, right?

Jon Weberg (33:24.852)
Right. You've laid out kind of the full thought out proposal and you've agreed at least on most of what you think is going to work for both parties. Definitely.

Christian Brim (33:28.5)
Right.

Christian Brim (33:32.946)
Right. And then the attorney, you know, then they can poke holes in your ideas. Well, like, well, you think that's going to work that way, but it's not, you know, that's fine. That's what they're there for. But if you go in and don't really have an idea of how you want to structure it, you're going to end up spending a lot more money than you need to.

Jon Weberg (33:40.081)
Mm

Jon Weberg (33:50.732)
Yeah. Yeah. So people don't do that. You're going to lose. You will lose your shirt every time.

Christian Brim (33:55.028)
Yes, yes. So John, how do we find you?

Jon Weberg (34:00.258)
You can find me on number one YouTube. youtube .com forward slash at John Weberg. No H just J O N W E B E R G. Also, if you want to start or grow your business at maximum profitability, go to profitallize .com. And other than that, just kind of watch this podcast again, read it over, listen to it again. And any of my content on Facebook, on Instagram, look me up, you'll find me.

I would say as well look at different podcasts listen to my other podcasts listen to them and learn learn learn learn get nurtured as much as possible learn as much as possible and then only if you think I'm good stuff consider working with me

Christian Brim (34:33.834)
Yes.

Christian Brim (34:44.149)
Perfect. John, thank you very much for your time today. I appreciate it. Listeners, if you like what you've heard, please subscribe, please rate the show. If you don't like what you've heard, send us a message and let us know what you'd like to change. Until then, ta ta for now.

Jon Weberg (35:02.372)
care.