Mental Health and the Creative Process | Alyssa Jarrett

PROFITABLE TALKS....

In this episode of Profitable Creative, host Christian Brim speaks with author and consultant Alyssa Jarrett about her journey from a high-pressure marketing role to becoming a self-published author. Alyssa shares her experiences with mental health, the importance of marketing skills in the publishing world, and the challenges of building a personal brand. The conversation delves into authenticity, audience connection, and the nuances of navigating public perception as a writer. In this engaging conversation, Alyssa Jarrett shares her journey as an author and publisher, discussing the challenges and triumphs of navigating the publishing landscape. From the humorous beginnings of a cat-related anecdote to the serious business of writing and marketing, Alyssa emphasizes the importance of treating writing as a business while maintaining creativity. She reflects on her experiences with traditional and indie publishing, the lessons learned along the way, and her aspirations for future projects, including potential adaptations of her work.

PROFITABLE TAKEAWAYS....

• Alyssa transitioned from a VP of marketing to self-employment.
• Mental health played a crucial role in her career change.
• Self-publishing requires effective marketing strategies.
• Building a personal brand is essential for authors.
• Authenticity helps in connecting with the audience.
• Navigating public perception can be challenging for writers.
• It's important to embrace individuality in writing.
• Alyssa's writing style is heavily satirical and unique.
• Engaging with readers creates a loyal fanbase.
• Authors should be prepared for public scrutiny. Alyssa emphasizes the importance of humor in conversations.
• Navigating traditional publishing can be challenging and subjective.
• Self-publishing allows for greater control over one's work.
• Treating writing as a business is crucial for success.
• Investing in oneself is key to achieving long-term goals.
• Marketing strategies are essential for authors to reach their audience.
• Authors should focus on completing multiple projects before publishing.
• The journey of self-publishing involves many logistical challenges.
• Building relationships with agents can be beneficial but is not the only path.
• Alyssa is open to exploring different mediums for her stories.

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Transcript

Christian Brim (00:01.918)
Welcome to another edition of the Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Joining me today is Alyssa Jarrett, author and consultant. Alyssa, welcome.

Alyssa Jarrett (00:11.726)
Lovely to be here. Thank you so much for having me, Christian.

Christian Brim (00:24.832)
I'm glad you're here. tell us a little bit about your journey on becoming an author.

Alyssa Jarrett (00:34.254)
So I would say it was sort of an abrupt transition. I had been working in content marketing in the tech industry for over a decade. And I was recently in a executive level position as a VP of marketing for a very small startup. And I was the only marketer on the team. I basically was working 12 hour days, day after day. I was extremely burnt out under immense pressure.

And realizing that this just was not sustainable, my mental health was absolutely tanking. And after a refreshing Christmas break right before 2022, I realized I just couldn't do this anymore. So come the new year, I, after talking with my husband and with my therapist for months, said if I don't feel brave enough to do this now, I'm never going to do it.

Christian Brim (01:17.364)
Mm-hmm.

Alyssa Jarrett (01:31.15)
So I decided to resign and at that point I had one novel written and was in like knee deep in the second and I said I was just gonna take a mental health sabbatical, really level set and focus on my health. And that turned into self-employment. And since then I've been able to launch my debut, Love Actually, in May and...

Next week, I have my second novel, a rock climbing romance called Love on the Rocks coming October 22nd.

Christian Brim (02:05.536)
Perfect. So when you quit, you hadn't published your first book yet.

Alyssa Jarrett (02:10.246)
I hadn't, which I understand is pretty contrarian to the common advice not to quit your day job because there's no guarantee that any of your creative pursuits are going to make money. But at that point, I wasn't really thinking of it as a business. I just said, like, for my health, I need to do this and had negotiated with my partner that, you know, for a year, I wasn't going to have to worry about.

making a certain level of income. And I'm in a very privileged position being from tech and I had the ability to sell some stock options. So we had a pretty, you know, a good financial cushion. And I for that first month, I didn't do anything. I did puzzles. I watched Gossip Girl. I was a lump on a log for a while. But eventually, I started to think what could my future look like? And if I wanted to

craft my career in a different way, what would that look like? And so I had an independent editor at that time and we talked about it a lot and she referenced Jamie Attenberg who has a very popular newsletter and Jamie at one point had said, know, if you already have a book written and if you can work in a self-motivated manner and you have plans and deadlines that you can set for yourself,

And if it's not gonna financially decimate you, sure, why not take that time and see if you can make something of yourself as an author. There's always the ability to go back to work. And so I haven't ever made a decision so drastic that I've completely ruined my life, but I'm happy to be here regardless.

Christian Brim (03:59.732)
That's only in stories, know, movies where, you know, there's this one decision that defines the hero's life. That's fantasy. It is the culmination of the choices in my experience. It's, mean, not to say that you couldn't make a drastic decision that would ruin everything, but I haven't seen it. You know, I mean, like I said, like you make a decision to kill somebody, right? Well,

Alyssa Jarrett (04:07.916)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (04:29.524)
You didn't get to that point. mean, there were lots of steps that got you to that point. So yes, maybe that one decision was drastic, but there were other decisions you made to get to that point. And I do think that's important to not catastrophize things in terms of potential outcomes.

Alyssa Jarrett (04:45.677)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (04:59.424)
My business coach, when I'm struggling with something like that, he makes me engage my cognitive brain and say, okay, what's the worst case scenario? You know, like what is the absolute worst that can happen? And if you're okay with that, then you can proceed. But usually we don't go through that process, right? We just imagine things. We don't really think about them.

Alyssa Jarrett (05:12.386)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (05:29.246)
if that makes sense.

Alyssa Jarrett (05:30.934)
Well, and as someone with pretty severe anxiety at the time, I had used it often as a way of not moving forward. It was so easy to think of the worst case scenarios. even with all of my privilege in my life, I kept thinking, there isn't any possible way I could do this. And eventually it got almost offensive. If I can't do this under these circumstances,

Christian Brim (05:40.122)
Mm-hmm, sure.

Alyssa Jarrett (05:59.904)
Absolutely no one can do this. And so at that point, I was just spinning myself into circles for no reason. And again, like you said, this isn't life or death. We're not curing cancer here. If I had to go back to work, I had to go back to work. But at least I would have enjoyed the time off and felt like I was charting a new path forward.

Christian Brim (06:16.693)
Right.

Christian Brim (06:23.168)
So looking back on the other side of it now, does that seem, I don't want to say silly, don't want to trivialize what you were feeling, like, does it seem strange that you could have been considering it like that you were struggling?

Alyssa Jarrett (06:32.023)
Mm-hmm.

Alyssa Jarrett (06:43.278)
I mean, I think it's part of that creative perfectionism that everything has to go an absolutely perfect way all the time, otherwise you're a total failure. And I just told myself that integrity is one of the most important things to me. And if I was going to live out this experience, I wanted to do it in public. I wanted people to know. I can't necessarily resonate with authors who said, like, nobody knew I wrote a book until I published one. I'm like,

I would rather bring people along that journey with me and if I fail in public, then that's a learning lesson for everybody else. And so I actually had a lot of people reach out to me on LinkedIn when I posted about my resignation saying that they were considering doing something similar or were inspired by my story. And I made a lot of really great writing friends.

Christian Brim (07:20.832)
Sure.

Christian Brim (07:35.21)
So you self-published the Yes. How have you used your marketing skills to market your book?

Alyssa Jarrett (07:37.452)
I did.

Alyssa Jarrett (07:47.478)
Yeah, you know, I think that's also something that I feel like a lot of folks who go into trad publishing are concerned about, saying that they either hate marketing or they're not good at it. And that was something that was very empowering to me. It's something I actually truly enjoy doing. And I think if you come into it with that mindset, you're going to have a much better time. And I would also preface saying that traditional publishing does not exempt you from marketing either. So, you know, either way, you have to sort of have an entrepreneurial mindset.

But it's been interesting applying a lot of the same fundamentals still exist, right? You still wanna connect to people as if they're people. You still have to think about your target audience and not try to be everything for everybody. You have to be comfortable like carving yourself a niche and owning a specific point of view. But it has also been a reckoning of saying that selling hundreds of thousands of dollars of inter...

Christian Brim (08:29.908)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Alyssa Jarrett (08:44.012)
software is drastically different than selling a $5 ebook to consumers. So I've been learning more about B2C marketing and just how people interact with book media on social and just trying to figure out exactly what people are connecting with and why.

Christian Brim (08:48.672)
Sure.

Christian Brim (09:06.216)
Yeah, I didn't coin this phrase, but somebody else said it. All sales is person to person, whether it's B2B or B2C. mean, you're still dealing with the same fundamentals of engaging the individual.

Alyssa Jarrett (09:20.694)
Mm-hmm. Yep, absolutely. you know, at this point, people want to connect with others in a parasocial relationship. And so I actually was really upfront with the fact that I'm not writing under a pen name. I have a background in journalism. so, again, like showing up as my full authentic self is what I think is part of brand building. And so for me, I never wanted to hide behind

an avatar, was never that concerned as a marketer, especially of my privacy because I am disillusioned of that fact online. And I understand that a lot of folks don't find the same values in that, especially in romance. I think there's a lot of fear and stigma. And the more sexual your content, the worse this gets of people would ask me, you know, what's your pen name? And I often took an affront to that.

saying why specifically do me and this genre, why do I have to do this? Whereas no one is asking someone who writes literary fiction like what's your pen name? And so I wanted to again like represent the genre, defend it, support it, and make it just as established and respectable as any other genre in the market today.

Christian Brim (10:42.184)
Interesting. I hadn't even considered that. When I published my book, I had wanted my name associated with it. So the idea that someone wouldn't want their name associated with what they wrote is something I had never considered. Let's talk a little bit about personal brand.

Alyssa Jarrett (11:06.989)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (11:09.904)
I struggled and I still struggle with that because I'm not one of those people that likes to draw attention to myself. Now, some people that know me well will say, that's complete bullshit. You're always attracting attention to yourself. it's a difference to me of like being the

Alyssa Jarrett (11:25.054)
Hahaha!

Christian Brim (11:37.93)
funny guy or the entertaining guy versus putting myself out there as an expert. that that's a different thing to me, but in any case, struggling with the idea of personal brand, I recently heard a speaker on the subject and, one of her things was that, when she shows up in public, she always has the same color palette on.

Alyssa Jarrett (11:45.335)
Mm-hmm.

Alyssa Jarrett (12:05.336)
Mm.

Christian Brim (12:06.546)
I hadn't thought about that. And so then I went to an event last night and I used to wear a cowboy hat all the time and my van speakers and a t-shirt and the one of my friends there goes, where's your cowboy hat? And I'm like, I don't have it on. And I was telling my wife, she didn't go with me to this event, but I was telling her last night, I'm like,

You know, I, I've figured out what my brand image is and it's what I've already put out there. And I had done a speaking engagement a couple of weeks ago and I didn't wear the shtick and I'm like, I screwed up. Like, you know, if that's the expectation, that, that I built out there is that I look a certain way. that's how I need to show up. And that's, that's a very foreign thing to me. Cause I don't.

Alyssa Jarrett (12:49.25)
Mmm.

Christian Brim (13:02.72)
I don't think about what other people think of what I look like. I'm like, I don't really care what you think what I look like. So talk to me about how you've developed your personal brand.

Alyssa Jarrett (13:15.086)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and I would say that, you know, some people really bristle at the idea that people can be brands. They find that very dystopian. As a marketer, I have a different take on it. I think that people rally around other people because of a shared set of values and personality types. And I think that it's okay to lean into that because, again, it happens to narrow your audience. And so...

Christian Brim (13:44.404)
Mm-hmm.

Alyssa Jarrett (13:45.454)
I've done this throughout my life, right? I'm pretty secular from a religious community, so I was contrarian in that regard. I'm child-free by choice, so that often, especially when I was dating, that limited the dating tool quite considerably. And now as an author, I have a particular style that may not suit everybody. I'm heavily satirical.

Christian Brim (14:00.512)
Yes.

Alyssa Jarrett (14:08.43)
I had an agent describe my work as like, Lorelai Gilmore on Gilmore Girls that I'm writing as fast as I talk. And so that sort of style and voice isn't gonna be for everybody. And I had to just lean into that fact and say, that's okay, right? Like the reason that people become Die Hard fans is because they connect with you immediately. And nowadays when it's so easy to just...

Christian Brim (14:21.93)
Right?

Alyssa Jarrett (14:36.28)
DNF a book and start a new one, you want to have that immediate connection with the reader. And I've had people reach out to me and say, as soon as I started the page, I knew we were going to be best friends. So I realized, what is it about my brand, quote unquote, that resonates with certain kinds of people? And a lot of it is things that I don't really have a lot of control over, right? I have a career in tech.

I'm a self-described coastal elite, and so I write a particular genre of rom-com that is not going to appeal to everybody. I also don't really shy away from being progressive politically, and so you sort of kind of come to the table knowing those things about me, and you're either along for the ride or not. And I'm grateful for every reader who gives me a chance and says, actually, this isn't my cup of tea.

Because, you know, I've realized as I've traveled a lot of people drink tea differently. And you just have to find the people that are kind of...

Christian Brim (15:36.052)
Some people put ice in it, which really makes some people offended.

Alyssa Jarrett (15:40.59)
I do!

good sweet tea. And I was in Scotland just a month ago and I overheard in another American bamboozled that the British drink tea with milk in it. And that's how I've always, you know, drink my hot tea and even I put some milk in my iced tea. And that's when it hit me that again, when I say you're not going to be everybody's cup of tea, like

Christian Brim (15:58.612)
Yes.

Alyssa Jarrett (16:11.666)
good, a of people don't know how to drink tea properly.

Christian Brim (16:15.646)
Yeah, the British think that we're absolute heathens for drinking it iced. it's, I don't understand. But, you know, it's a great illustration of that even something as universal globally as tea, it's not universal. And I...

Alyssa Jarrett (16:33.556)
No, no. And people have very strong opinions on this. And so if they have strong opinions on the tea they drink, they are definitely going to care about what kind of books they read.

Christian Brim (16:37.918)
Yes, 100%.

Christian Brim (16:45.928)
Yeah. And I think, you know, as we're talking about this, I mean, one of the things that I've struggled with in putting myself out there, personal branding is the idea like you, I want to be authentic. don't want to pretend to be something that I'm not, but then the potential to offend, you know, in today's environment,

Alyssa Jarrett (17:10.99)
Mm.

Christian Brim (17:15.354)
where people are so easily offended. it's, it's, it's, it's pretty much, impossible to not offend somebody, right? Like, I mean, because people I think are looking to be offended. I don't know, and I don't really want to go down that rabbit hole of what, what's causing that, but I, I've struggled with,

like being authentic about some of my beliefs that I know are going to be divisive. Like, you know, if I talk about my being a disciple of Christ, for instance, that is going to immediately polarize people, right? And I don't want to polarize people unnecessarily.

Alyssa Jarrett (18:08.344)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Christian Brim (18:14.43)
because I'm not out there as, for instance, a preacher. I'm not out there evangelizing. I want people to hear my core message of my book, and I don't want to distract them from getting that message. So...

Alyssa Jarrett (18:31.896)
Mm-hmm.

Alyssa Jarrett (18:35.544)
Yeah, I completely understand. And I think, again, coming from a marketing and PR background, I naturally think like a publicist of what kind of information is relevant at this point in time and how does it serve you and your audience? And so some people are very forthcoming about all sorts of topics and that they're completely entitled to do that. But there are a lot of things that, frankly, I don't feel very educated or informed or even all that concerned about.

that I need to talk about on a regular basis. And so for the things that are important to me, and I think that people will resonate in my work, that's what I tend to focus on. And so I would say that it's gonna range for everybody on how comfortable they like being sort of in public, especially online. And for me, I think being upfront about who I am also curbs some of that where...

I think a lot of folks online are younger, right? The demographics skew younger. And for me, I remember at that age, I was a drastically different person. Everything was black and white. Everything was right or wrong. And I think as you age, you develop more nuance and that you realize that there's a lot of gray. And so I'm always saying, hey, this is what's going on in my life. This is how I'm thinking about things. And if I feel like sharing, I will.

People can choose to interact with that or not. At least they can't say like I've hidden something from them I've been I've been switched them. I've you know, I'm a different person in my real life versus my virtual one I just that's exhausting so I I feel like you just have to show up the way that feels most comfortable to you and find pockets of

Christian Brim (20:10.964)
Right.

Christian Brim (20:22.014)
Yeah. Yeah.

Alyssa Jarrett (20:30.784)
and niches of fandom and community online, that's gonna value that. And I think that's taken me time, especially publishing and being open to criticism. You have to get comfortable with the fact that you are somewhat of a public figure and people expect you to act accordingly. And that means like not throwing little tantrums on the internet and keeping your inside thoughts to yourself sometimes.

complaining to a group chat rather than getting upset about, you know, bad reviews online. And so, you know, I think like put your publicist hat on and if there was a PR person in your brain saying like, hey, is this a good idea? You know, you might want to think through some things before you just let everything loose.

Christian Brim (21:01.94)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (21:19.722)
Yeah, like I don't lead with, I hate cats. Although I, I, I do. I hate cats. Right. Yeah. Like I, I, I had a teacher in junior high school that would collect dead cats to articulate for like vet studies.

Alyssa Jarrett (21:23.906)
Hahaha

Blasphemy!

Christian Brim (21:49.32)
Right? So like he, he'd find these dead cats and, and then it kind of, the conversation kind of morphed and like, I don't know if necessarily the cats were dead when he found them. And then I was like, I'm totally fine with that. Like, you know, if you kill cats, I'm totally fine with that. But I'm not, I'm not leading with that because it's not necessary. And, and yet I've put it out there. I don't know. I'm not, I'm not advocating. I'm not advocating killing cats.

Alyssa Jarrett (22:01.601)
boy.

Alyssa Jarrett (22:08.768)
No?

It's too late! Cat is literally out of the bag now.

Christian Brim (22:17.704)
I want to be really clear. I'm not advocating killing cats. Do not kill cats. But don't bring them to my house either. Yeah. Okay. Let's pivot a minute. Where, you know, I've, I've, I've completely gone off the rails. Let's pivot. Let's pivot and discuss.

Alyssa Jarrett (22:21.946)
Mm-hmm.

Alyssa Jarrett (22:25.483)
You

Alyssa Jarrett (22:30.478)
you

Alyssa Jarrett (22:38.755)
That's the best conversation.

Christian Brim (22:43.848)
some of the challenges you've had as an author and a publisher. Where were the landmines you didn't know about?

Alyssa Jarrett (22:46.168)
Thank

Alyssa Jarrett (22:55.591)
Well, I would say that I did pursue traditional publishing at the outset, and so I queried three of the four manuscripts that I wrote in the series that I'm currently publishing. And I've said before that, you know, a lot of the times traditional publishing serves as a type of external validation, and I saw them as the people pleaser that I am. These are authority figures, and I am meant to do their bidding.

Christian Brim (23:15.284)
Hmm.

Alyssa Jarrett (23:23.352)
great rule follower, you give me a rule and I'm down. And so I wanted to make, I want to make them proud. I want to make them happy. And it was really about like feeling like the world deemed me worthy. And after a few years of that, I had built some good relationships with some literary agents. And one in particular, we had worked on a revise and resubmit of my debut. And so last year I spent six months

Christian Brim (23:36.298)
Hmm.

Alyssa Jarrett (23:53.228)
really, I would say at least half of that book was kind of torn down to the studs and started over. And so that took a lot of time and energy out of me. And I was very like grateful for that experience because I truly believe that the book is better because of it. And yet I still received a soul crushing, this is so great, but I'm going to have to pass a second time. And again, she said,

had nothing to do with the craft. was about the voice being not a long-term fit for her list. And at that point, after having a little pity party for a day, I realized that that was actually a really sweet rejection because that was so subjective. And I realized that my craft was of publishable quality. And if the sales

you know, eventually come, those agents will definitely come back around. I know how the industry works now. And so I felt very comfortable at that point pursuing indie publishing because I was validated, you know, internally that I felt proud of the work that I had done. And I felt that I was ready to bring this to market. And at that point, I was super excited. I just really wanted to get these stories out to readers. And it's been so fun.

to really overcome that and feel very comfortable with my decision and say, you know, there's no, again, it's not like life and death, like W2 versus 1099. Like these are all interchangeable and so is Trad and Indie. I'm sure at some point I'll be a hybrid author. But these agents and editors, they're just business partners, right? They're here to help you find distribution and reach.

Christian Brim (25:37.567)
Right.

Alyssa Jarrett (25:42.382)
And they ultimately want sales, right? This is a business. And so I feel like the only thing that is considered a true failure is if you give up entirely. And so I'm happy the way that things have gone. I felt, think it's made me more resilient and more confident in my decisions moving forward.

Christian Brim (25:46.324)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (26:05.768)
You said something very profound. don't know if you realized it, but you know, I think the...

actually two things, but they're kind of related. the first is that it is a business and whatever you're trying to sell, someone has to be able to sell it and make money yourself or your partners. But that can feel not right to a creative when you're taking something

from yourself and creating it and part of you is in it. And that kind of leads to the second point about the validation. You know, that, that.

Is my work good enough? Is what I have. And I think at the end of the day, I have an episode with my daughter who is a figurative painter. And we kind of delved into this discussion around creativity and profitability.

You know, if you do your work and it comes from you, you don't need any validation because it is what it is. And if you're not satisfied with it, it needs to be because you're not satisfied with the work you've done, not what other people have said, right? But if you're going to sell it and make a profit, it does have to have acceptance.

Christian Brim (27:54.976)
from others and and that's a that's a hard line to weave sometimes

Alyssa Jarrett (27:59.178)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you'll always face that balancing act because if you end up, you know, even if you get past agents and editors and you get that shiny book deal from a big five, right, then you're facing readers. And every author cannot escape facing readers. And readers, at the end of the day, are people and they're subjective. And, you know, you have to be comfortable with anything that really comes your way. And no matter whether they praise you,

Or they denigrate you. Like you have to be able to say, well, I really loved that book I wrote. Like, I'm really proud of the work that I did. It was, you know, the best work that I could do at the time. And every book, you know, you get better and better. eventually you'll, the goal is to gain traction. No one expects profitability from day one, but you need to be making momentum in the right direction.

Christian Brim (28:33.696)
Yes.

Alyssa Jarrett (28:52.59)
And that's all I really wanted to do. So I treated it like a business from the start. I established an LLC. I considered, you know, what my expenses were going to be. laid out a budget. And even though like those books are not profitable yet, I know that this is the first year of my small business. And that is a journey that I going to be taking. And so again, I work in I work in tech and the vast majority of these startups aren't profitable.

But that doesn't mean that they aren't going to achieve success in some form in the future. And it's important to gain market share regardless of profitability. And so those sorts of things about risk taking, I think I've definitely taken from the tech and venture capital world of you have to invest in yourself if you want to see the fruits of your labor.

Christian Brim (29:46.974)
Yeah, I mean, you're, you are right. It's, it's much easier when you can do an activity and see the result immediately. Right. one of the things that I struggled with was in writing the book and, in, writing the book, I had an expectation of like what, what I was going to sell, but I didn't really know. And

at the end of the day, it's not going to be profitable, the book itself, for some time. But I had a vision for what I wanted it to do. you know, it is, it's hard when the rewards are deferred, for sure. But I think the important thing, like you said, is the intent is there. You see

Alyssa Jarrett (30:38.446)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (30:45.404)
the pathway and it may not go straight. probably won't go straight, but you know, it's with an intent to have a profit and you may make mistakes and some things not work out. but, but to me it's important about having that profit intent that you're not just throwing some, something up against the wall and seeing if it sticks.

Alyssa Jarrett (31:15.814)
Well, and then it's also important to be honest about the fact that things cost money. And when you're a self-published author, you have to upfront these costs yourself. And so, yes, it's not necessarily fair that I have to pay for my own editing and I have to pay for my own cover art and I have to do these things that traditional published authors don't get to do, but I am also in full control of my business. And I...

appreciate that and I respect that and I treat books as a source of income. It doesn't have to be the sole source of income. think author entrepreneurs these days are balancing books with know premium subscriptions on Substack, with courses, with YouTube advertising and other social advertising.

Christian Brim (31:52.288)
Mm-hmm.

Alyssa Jarrett (32:06.286)
with merchandise, with touring. I mean, think about all of your other creative professionals that you respect and how they make money, right? Actors, musicians, right? Like they have sponsorships, they have deals in a variety of areas. so books are no different. They're relatively, you know, low price points and you have to sell a lot in order to really make an impact. And so what other things can you build in your

Christian Brim (32:30.048)
Yeah.

Alyssa Jarrett (32:35.206)
repertoire as a business owner. And I'm excited by that. I again, as a marketer, I know that a lot of people are like, my god, I don't want to do all that work. And I'm saying, Okay, but like, then you have to, you have to accept that your business is going to be different. And if you don't think of it as a business, that's probably the first, you know, notch against you. I'm invigorated by the idea.

Christian Brim (32:46.26)
Yeah.

Alyssa Jarrett (33:04.11)
creating a creative life for myself. And unfortunately, you know, that we there's been no time in history where you just get to be a hermit in a cave and write and be and the accolades just come rolling in.

Christian Brim (33:17.48)
No. Well, and I think you hit it on the head and this is something that I preach is you are an entrepreneur with certain skills. So in your case, writing, marketing, whatever, but you're an entrepreneur first because when you lead with your skills, like, well, okay, I can do marketing and I can do writing, you limit yourself.

and you limit what your opportunities are. As we were thinking, I'm like, how about if you did a, and you're gonna laugh at me, what if you had weekend getaways that were programmed around your stories? Right?

Alyssa Jarrett (34:05.93)
Mm hmm. I mean, you have to be creative, right? You have to think differently. I've gone to tech. Yeah, I've gone to tech conferences because I know that that's also where my target reader is. I'm doing a signing at a climbing gym next week because my book is my romance is about rock climbing. So it's like you have to get out of your like rider bubble.

Christian Brim (34:11.826)
Sell the experience.

Alyssa Jarrett (34:30.358)
and think, okay, what is the larger audience you're trying to sell to? And can you get them interested in your book just because they're interested in the thing that your book is about?

Christian Brim (34:30.75)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (34:41.62)
Are you a rock climber?

Alyssa Jarrett (34:44.09)
I would say recreationally. So it was something that my husband got me into as we were dating. And I realized that the Venn diagram of people who work in tech and people who rock climb, there's a big overlap in that circle. And it's gotten a lot of flack for, especially in cities that are gentrified like Oakland, where I live. And so this is something that I wanted to tackle.

Christian Brim (34:46.698)
Okay.

Alyssa Jarrett (35:13.848)
from like a comedic, satirical lens of, you know, all of these Bay Area folks, we're not particularly outdoorsy. And so what happens when someone like myself goes to Yosemite to learn how to trad climb and is fundamentally not good at these sorts of things? And hijinks ensue, it's, you know, it's super fun. It's got a lot of sexual tension. And I think it's a hoot.

Christian Brim (35:43.742)
Yeah, I ruled out rock climbing. I'm way too large. So that's just not going to work.

Alyssa Jarrett (35:49.304)
Hey, it's for every body type, I'll say. And the one thing I love about rock climbing is that it's a mental puzzle at the end of the day. Like it's a full body workout, but like I'm trying to figure out how to put my feet and my hands in places to get to the top. And that to me is more of a mental exercise than anything else.

Christian Brim (36:08.414)
I've also given up on surfing. I don't think I'm or a gymnast.

Alyssa Jarrett (36:10.894)
Well, now, now, no shark is coming at you in the rock climbing gym to eat you, so I think that's a fair assessment.

Christian Brim (36:20.18)
Yeah.

What else? You mentioned the landmine of the upfront costs and what other things did you not know before you went on this journey that you found?

Alyssa Jarrett (36:41.35)
my goodness, I, there's so many things that you just need to experience for yourself. There's just a lot of logistical issues about publishing, especially if you're going to be your own publisher. And all those little nitty gritty details take a lot of mental toll on me. I, when I went into it, I thought I would be able to juggle publishing a book and marketing it and then also writing the next one.

Christian Brim (37:07.52)
Hmm.

Alyssa Jarrett (37:07.65)
Or at least in this case, editing the next one because I have all four drafted. And I needed to accept the fact that like my mental energy on launching this book is valid and it is vital and I deserve to give it my whole attention. And so when I go into marketing mode, like I give it my all and it's not until after this book is going to be launched next week.

am I starting to think about, okay, let me go back into my next draft and, and think about getting that to completion. I'm not a particularly great multitasker and I don't think most people are. and so I would say like, what is it that the Nick Offerman quote, like don't half ass two things, full ass one thing. and when you're in marketing, like in, in marketing mode, like give it your full attention. I would say because of that,

Christian Brim (37:54.197)
Yes.

Alyssa Jarrett (38:04.69)
I'm really, I'm really glad I had the foresight to draft multiple books at once before I decided to publish them. So readers especially do not like to give, they don't like to give a lot of flexibility to authors that are unproven and unknown. So if you start writing a series and you do not finish one, there are going to be many readers who will never read it because they're waiting for it to be done. They're also trying to see if they can trust you.

to finish a project. And so they're waiting to see if you can handle this. And so I would recommend getting several books underneath you before taking this journey, because you want to give yourself enough of a head start. Like, publishing is hard, and you want to give yourself every advantage possible.

Christian Brim (38:56.254)
Yeah, and you're really talking about really two distinct skill sets there. know, writing versus marketing. mean, those are some people might say are similar, but like to me, that's that'd be two different things. And and yeah, it would be easy to do both of them poorly if you didn't focus on one of them for sure. Well, how do we find your book? Well, what give us the titles?

Alyssa Jarrett (39:21.015)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So my debut is called Love Actually. It is a Silicon Valley rom-com based or I should say inspired by a corporate scandal that I was managing when I worked in tech. And so it's got a lot of juicy nuggets in there for anyone who knows me.

And my second book is called Love on the Rocks and it's a rock climbing romance inspired by documentaries like Free Solo. So if you're fascinated by the world of climbing, even if you're not particularly athletic like myself, it's a whole lot of fun. And so I focus on just breezy, bingeable, romantic comedies that are hopefully going to just be uplifting.

and escapists and a whole lot of fun.

Christian Brim (40:18.218)
Where do we buy them?

Alyssa Jarrett (40:20.076)
That's, yeah, that's a good question. Should have probably gotten there. My ebooks are exclusive to Kindle Unlimited, so they're available on Amazon. Paperbacks are available wherever books are sold, and you can get signed copies from me on my Etsy. But to just find out about my work in general, you can go to AlissaJarrett.com, or you can follow me on Instagram, threads and TikTok at author Alissa Jarrett.

And I'm also on Substack for my newsletter. It's called Grumpy Plus Sunshine at elistajerriotubstack.com.

Christian Brim (40:59.73)
Yeah. So does anybody approach you about movie rights yet?

Alyssa Jarrett (41:04.307)
Not yet, but you know, I'm always open. My inbox is there.

Christian Brim (41:06.848)
Maybe that's your next thing, is you write a screenplay.

Alyssa Jarrett (41:14.498)
have been told because I feel like my books are pretty cinematic and dialogue heavy that I might be conducive to screenwriting. I would love to get into any mediums so I'm very flexible about anything that I do in the future.

Christian Brim (41:31.274)
Yeah, I have not dabbled. I've learned a little bit about that side. And it's fascinating how cheaply you can make a movie now. so you may have to produce it yourself, but who knows?

Alyssa Jarrett (41:51.818)
Well, I would be in good company. A lot of my friends are also indie filmmakers and, you know, I, that's just something that I, again, I'm not one to say no when it comes to getting stories told. And so that just sounds like a whole lot of fun to me.

Christian Brim (42:06.664)
Well, I'm eager to, although I will admittedly say that genre is not one that I read, I am looking forward to reading and your books and escaping. And maybe I'll pass them on to my wife. Maybe she would be more your target market, but we'll see. But I look forward to it.

Alyssa Jarrett (42:25.324)
Hey, I mean, I appreciate coming on here and just, you know, talking about books and creativity and making this whole business life happen. I could talk about this literally all day.

Christian Brim (42:39.742)
Well, thank you for your time. Thank you for your experience. Share listeners. If you like what you hear, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast, rate the podcast. If you don't like what you hear, shoot us a message and tell us what you want to hear. Until then, ta-ta for now.