From TV to Photography: John DeMato's Journey | John DeMato

PROFITABLE TALKS....

In this episode of the Profitable Creative, host Christian Brim interviews John DiMatto, a photographer who transitioned from television production to branding photography. John shares his journey, discussing the emotional toll of his previous work, the importance of storytelling in photography, and how he identifies and serves his ideal clients. He also delves into pricing strategies, the significance of financial stability for creativity, and valuable lessons learned throughout his career.

PROFITABLE TAKEAWAYS...

• John transitioned from television production to photography after a personal loss.
• He emphasizes the importance of storytelling in photography.
• John's ideal clients are experts in various fields who need branding photography.
• He believes in capturing genuine emotions rather than posed images.
• Pricing strategies evolved from initial low rates to a more stable income.
• Financial stability allows for greater creative freedom.
• John encourages photographers to understand their clients' needs and language.
• He stresses the importance of planting seeds for future business opportunities.
• Continuous learning and improvement are crucial in the creative industry.
• John advises focusing on a specific target audience to enhance service delivery.

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Transcript

Christian Brim (00:01.511)
Welcome to another episode of the Profitable Creative. I am your host, Christian Brim. Joining me today, John DiMatto of DiMatto Productions. Welcome, John.

John DeMato (00:15.47)
Thank you for the invitation, Christian, I appreciate it.

Christian Brim (00:18.361)
Absolutely. I do want to give a shout out to our one listener in Skokie, Illinois. Thank you, Skokie. John, tell us about Domado Productions, how you got here.

John DeMato (00:35.914)
I how much time do we have for that? Well, once upon a time, I started my working life after graduate school as a television field producer. worked on a talk show in New York City and then in Stanford, Connecticut. And after

Christian Brim (00:39.315)
As long as you want, As long as you want.

John DeMato (01:03.006)
nine seasons of doing that and having a bit of a come to Jesus moment after my mom passed away. I realized that working in in that world was no longer a fit for me. And for a couple of years prior to me exiting in 2014, I was shooting headshots and portraits and different kinds of

things around my neighborhood, like some street photography, things of that nature. And I figured, well, I really enjoy this. I live in New York City. I'll be a headshot photographer. How hard could that be? Right, right. Exactly. 200,000. I didn't have one iota.

Christian Brim (01:43.517)
There's only two in the whole city I've heard.

John DeMato (01:56.73)
of marketing ability within me at that time had no idea what the hell I was doing, ended up freaking out pretty much every single day going into a Starbucks staring out the window wondering what the hell did I do with my life and my career. So

Christian Brim (02:14.033)
Okay, I'm going to pause, pause real quick here and back up. When you said you had this come to Jesus moment that this wasn't for you, what specifically wasn't for you anymore?

John DeMato (02:29.164)
I think it was the, it was the distress of working on a daytime talk show. was the content that we were creating. It was very emotional, heavy, you know, I worked on the Maury show. for those familiar with that show, you know what that show is about. And it's, it's dealing with people at it in their worst moments of their life, basically.

over and over and over and over again. And it it wore me down if I'm being completely honest. So it

Christian Brim (03:06.265)
I can imagine it would. I mean, unless you were just a psychopath and didn't care, which I'm sure there are some that were and didn't.

John DeMato (03:15.542)
Right. Well, unfortunately I'm not. that, you know, that checks out and, you know, that, that was part of it. The other part of it was this, it felt like after a while, you know, after doing several thousand interviews, several hundred field pieces, getting on planes and going to all these parts, different parts of the country and shooting all this stuff, you know, it just felt repetitive.

Christian Brim (03:18.737)
Right.

John DeMato (03:43.742)
over and over again, doing the same thing. You know, how many times can you shoot baby B roll and not want to shoot yourself in the head? It's that kind of thing. So eventually, you know, that's why I actually picked up the camera because in graduate school, I went to grad school for an MFA in TV production, not because you need paperwork to work in TV, but because I wanted two years to screw around and figure out what I wanted to do and give myself

Christian Brim (04:11.347)
Fair enough.

John DeMato (04:12.396)
Yeah, give myself that play space where there was no stakes other than getting a piece of paper that no one ever even cared for within the industry that I worked in. But yeah, no, no, no. It's it wasn't for that it was it was literally for the opportunity to maybe I want to work in a studio environment or a single camera or maybe I want to be an editor or I want

Christian Brim (04:22.821)
No one asked for it.

Hahaha

John DeMato (04:41.418)
focus on writing and I did the whole rigamarole went through all the different things and ultimately single camera field production was my jam and that's exactly what I did at Maury and that part was great and to say that I got worn down yes but there were so many amazing lessons about storytelling that I learned there that I eventually applied to what I do now because

Christian Brim (05:04.979)
Mm, yeah.

John DeMato (05:10.046)
after shooting headshots and starting to pick up some traction. And of course I was a jack of all trades. So, you know, I'm shooting networking events and dating profile pictures and I shot a 90th birthday party and wedding anniversary. Yeah, I did the whole.

Christian Brim (05:25.939)
Did you do food photography?

John DeMato (05:29.902)
I did shoot once a video. It was a hybrid gig where I shot at the James Beard Foundation. I don't know if you're familiar in New York City, which by the way, is the tiniest place ever for such a prestigious place. They they should throw some money into that. I want you know, that was also maybe third 1213 years ago, I'm assuming they already did that. But regardless, I did photograph them prepping food.

Christian Brim (05:38.225)
Okay, yeah, yes.

John DeMato (05:59.434)
And, plating it and I did interviews and all that stuff. That was a lot of fun. but what ultimately happened is I went on LinkedIn because I figured I needed to try to find people that I, first of all, learn marketing from, cause I didn't really know what I was doing. And I stumbled upon this entire industry of people who parade around stages.

and speak on these topics because they're experts. And I had absolutely no idea that this even existed because, you know, I was in my own world for all those years. I thought it was that kind of work was just for ex presidents and Tony Robbins. And then I realized there's a whole thing out there. So as I as I kind of delved into that a little bit more, the next thing I know, I'm working with

Christian Brim (06:45.009)
Right.

Right.

John DeMato (06:57.08)
these people photographing them at their events and trying to make friends and network and all of that. And one thing led to another. And the next thing you know, I'm applying the way that I photographed these interviews and B-roll and these field pieces for television stuff. And I'm using that skill set for stills for photography, because it all applies because visual storytelling is not just moving

visuals. It's also still ones too. So that's how I ended up getting into branding photography, event photography, and eventually book photography for experts who speak, coach, train, consult, and write books.

Christian Brim (07:28.018)
Right?

Christian Brim (07:46.683)
You know, I hear a lot of videographers talk about storytelling, but you're the first photographer that I've met that talks about storytelling. I'm wondering, do you find a lot of other photographers that share that vision, or are you fairly unique in that space?

John DeMato (08:10.286)
Well, I mean, to say that I'm the only one would be a bit ridiculous. the truth is I don't personally know a lot of folks that focus on branding, photography, in the way that I do it. There are more, well,

Christian Brim (08:30.611)
Okay, so how do you do it?

John DeMato (08:36.512)
A lot of, a lot of branding photographer and, I'm not saying that all of them do. but it was the thing that kind of, of initially kind of pushed me away was the photos are beautiful. I'm not saying that the work is an outstanding in terms of the technical components, the lighting, but the thing that I saw in terms of a gap was that.

They focused all of their effort on the beauty of the image, the vanity components. Whereas I come from the world of photograph of, of, shooting video of people hysterically crying and ready to throw people out windows, which means not that I want these folks to do that, but more specifically, it's about the power of emotion in storytelling.

And it's not just the power of emotion, but it's the importance of being genuine and being yourself, not being posed in front of the camera. Like it's a fashion shooter, an editorial spread or something in beauty. This is a very different thing. It's a very hyper focused, very specific type of work. And that's where I saw how I could fit in and be unique about it. Now,

the elements of it, if I were to compare what I do to another genre of photography, would be photojournalism in that I'm trying to capture what's in front of the camera without controlling what's happening in front of the camera. Now, when I'm shooting branding photography, there is a level of control there. But when I'm shooting events and masterminds and all of these other things,

Christian Brim (10:13.363)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (10:21.043)
Okay.

John DeMato (10:33.034)
I have zero control. is simply about capturing the moments that matter in that room for my client and the participants that are there as well. So that's how I kind of differentiate myself from other branding photographers. Again, the work is outstanding looking, but I feel like the essence of a lot of these people is missing. And that's where I step in and really go for it.

the most.

Christian Brim (11:03.731)
So I think I heard you say that your ideal client or customer is maybe an author, a speaker that is working on their own personal brand. Is that accurate or would you like to expand on that?

John DeMato (11:20.8)
a little bit of an expansion because there's also professional services. I photographed some doctors, cosmetic surgeons, lawyers, accountants, some tech folks, and they're expert adjacent. You know, I say experts who speak, coach, train, consult, and write books because first of all, I memorized it and I'm pretty good at spitting that out at any time. So it sounds good. Thank you. I've done it a million times.

Christian Brim (11:25.235)
Okay.

Christian Brim (11:38.557)
Okay.

Christian Brim (11:46.247)
You did a good job.

John DeMato (11:50.414)
And I'll do it a million more, but it's also those folks as well because anyone that is in a service-based business, they're also in the business of building relationships. And when you're in the business of building relationships, one of the ways in which you do that is by establishing a connection with people through the way that they are introduced to you. And in many cases, they're introduced through

Christian Brim (12:03.187)
Mm-hmm.

John DeMato (12:19.394)
you know, your social profiles, your website, all of the different touch points on your online presence. And that's where these photos live. And that's why they consistently need to be in line with who you are as a person, who you serve, the problems you solve and how you solve those problems. So that there, that consistency means that wherever these people come in through the front door, they're always going to see a, a, and,

they're going to see an actual realistic representation of how you want to be perceived by them. And that's my job to capture that.

Christian Brim (12:59.303)
Do do. Well, let me back up a second. OK, give me the repeated phrase again of who you help slower.

John DeMato (13:08.808)
I serve experts who speak, coach, train, consult, write books and are in professional services. People who are service-based business owners that need to connect with their audiences through different touch points across their online presence.

Christian Brim (13:32.243)
Okay. Do you find that those people think of what they need from you in terms of personal branding? Is that what they're looking for when they come to you? Okay, so that's the way they define it.

John DeMato (13:48.162)
Yes. Yeah. They define it in a million different ways. I still have people saying I need headshots and while headshots are definitely a part of every branding session, it is but one small part. They conflate the headshots with the wider portraits with the lifestyle portraits. They just say headshots.

And I've been trying for eight years to smack that out of their heads. And I have been unsuccessful, but I'm going to continue to try.

Christian Brim (14:23.645)
Well, I think a lot of professionals like us, we have to get out of our own way sometimes when we're marketing and selling because we try to define it in terms of how we understand it and what we think we're trying to do and the way the customer understands it because they don't necessarily speak the same language or define the problem the same way.

John DeMato (14:54.638)
I definitely, I resonate with what you just said. And I also am of the opinion that there is a part of me that wants to be able to kind of help the people I serve to better understand what it is that they actually need and what it exactly is because

Christian Brim (15:15.432)
Yes.

Yes.

John DeMato (15:21.558)
Not only does it create an easier path for them to understand why they need to invest in these images, but it's also going to draw more people under the tent in the first place, because now it's more of a well-established fundamental overarching principle as opposed to, know, these groups of folks see it one way, one group sees it another way, and you kind of have to change the dialogue to be able to meet them where they are now.

I'm not against meeting people where they are at all. And at the end of the day, if they call them headshots, the world's going to still spin and I'm going to be okay. That's just more of one of those little kind of, you know, things that stick in my cross, so to speak.

Christian Brim (16:08.343)
I know, I get it. I totally get it. But I think to your point, you have to engage them enough to be able to educate them. So.

John DeMato (16:21.298)
You know, and it's also, need to understand how they describe their problem because when you talk about it in your content, it has to, for example, perfect example of this for the first, I would say out of the seven and a half, eight years that I've been specifically serving experts, professional service space, that, that area, I referred to my branding sessions as

Christian Brim (16:26.417)
Right.

John DeMato (16:49.858)
branded lifestyle portraits. And the reason was because I hated the fact that personal branding photography had been bastardized in my opinion, based on how other photographers were using that keyword phrase to be able to get attention for their photography. When you look at their foot, it could have been headshot photographers or

Christian Brim (16:51.868)
Mm-hmm, okay.

John DeMato (17:15.254)
some other type of portrait photographer, but they're using branding because they know that that's what people would look up most. So I, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to come up with my own thing. And, and half the time, 75 to 80 % of the time, I'd have to describe to people what the hell branded lifestyle portraits was. And eventually I just came to the conclusion that you know what?

Christian Brim (17:24.347)
Right.

John DeMato (17:43.82)
What I am doing is personal branding photography. I don't care what other photographers are doing. All I care about is sending a clear signal through the muck and the noise of the internet, of social media, and just get the attention of the people that I want to work with, that I will resonate with, that they can stomach me while I'm behind the camera for two, four or six hours.

and just get the work done because ultimately that's what matters most. They have people that they need to serve and help get past what's holding them back and I want to help them help them. So let's just get it done. That's what I did.

Christian Brim (18:26.801)
Yeah. And I think that you are a minority in that regard and having that clarity around what you do and the value proposition and who you're looking for. And I think that's a key component to scalable success is defining those things, whatever business you're in.

John DeMato (18:47.464)
It, it's, I mean, it begins and ends there. If you don't know who you serve and the problems you solve, you have a problem. Because everything that you write, every word that comes out of your mouth, every word that other people that you've worked with, they're going to have a problem to describe how you serve other than saying, he or she takes great photos. Well, what the hell does that mean? That, that, that means

Christian Brim (18:51.09)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (18:56.882)
Yes.

John DeMato (19:16.354)
That says, if you just got a testimonial that said, John was amazing. love all the photos. No one cares. They need to make it about it. You know, that's one of my big phrases is it's, it's not about you. It's about them. And.

Christian Brim (19:23.251)
Right.

Christian Brim (19:32.923)
Are you familiar with Donald Miller's Story Brand?

John DeMato (19:36.682)
I am familiar with StoryBram. I have not read his book, though.

Christian Brim (19:41.821)
Okay. I recommend, and, and I guess his, his background was as a screenwriter, and storyteller. And, I think it's, fascinating how that storytelling component weaves its way through virtually every aspect of our life. you know, it's not just marketing. It's, it's the way you communicate with others, the way you engage others, whether it's your, your spouse or your employees or

John DeMato (19:47.918)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (20:11.379)
It's a fascinating read. Okay, so who's the most interesting group to interview? I know it's not accountants, who are your top, you know.

John DeMato (20:23.937)
people I like to photograph?

John DeMato (20:29.098)
It's not, it's not about the group of people. It's about who the people are. I'm, I'm attracted to personalities, you know, I'm used to interviewing a wide collection of humanity based on my background. Therefore, when it comes to the types of people I like to work with, it's really, it's really about their personality, the way that they express themselves. I will say.

Christian Brim (20:33.523)
Yeah.

Right?

Christian Brim (20:55.731)
Hmm.

John DeMato (20:58.132)
One of the main reasons why I like working with experts of all different shapes, sizes, and flavors is because while I'm in the room and my job is clear and I'm pretty busy the moment the camera comes out of that bag, I'm gleaning a lot of really interesting insights from people and learning about leadership and sales, branding, marketing.

Christian Brim (21:21.446)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (21:25.395)
Sure.

John DeMato (21:26.794)
wellness. I mean,

Christian Brim (21:28.573)
So you do an ongoing interview as you're photographing.

John DeMato (21:33.408)
Yeah, I mean, in my head, I'm taking notes. I'm gleaning. And the best part about it is, is it after the session is done, or after the event is done, and the photos are delivered, and I've established a rapport with these people, I actually can pick up the phone in many cases and have a conversation with them and talk to them about what it is that they're an expert in and how I can apply.

Christian Brim (21:36.243)
Sure.

John DeMato (22:02.934)
those insights into my own life, my own business. It's it's killing two birds with one stone. It's keeping the lights on and it's enhancing up here. It's pretty amazing. Yes. Yeah.

Christian Brim (22:15.857)
Always learning, always learning. That's, if you stop learning, well, I mean, you've stopped having fun, but you've stopped growing and you have to set aside, one colleague of mine describes it as a beginner mindset. even if you were to interview another photographer or somebody in an adjacent space is setting aside what you know.

and just pretending you're a beginner. And what can I learn?

John DeMato (22:50.296)
My one of my clients who is a friend of mine, and I've been in many rooms with him where he's been facilitating or speaking. One of the first things that he says before at the beginning of every single mastermind or every training is relish rookie mode. it is. Yeah, it's something that, you know, I photographed a lot of people.

Christian Brim (23:11.239)
Yes, I like Rookie Mode.

John DeMato (23:19.18)
I've been in a wide variety of rooms, you know, my level of confidence when walking into a room, it's no longer can I do this, but whether you know, how am I going to make this stand out? And, you know, I'm fairly confident in what I do. But at the same time, the moment that those photos are delivered, and I review every single photo that I deliver to these clients, I am

ruthless at how much I can get better at everything. Because at the end of the day, there is no mountaintop moment. You know, there is a constant level leveling up leveling up leveling up getting better. How do I get better? What can I do better next time celebrate what you know, went really well and take that moment of gratitude and and and feel good.

Christian Brim (23:53.683)
Hmm.

John DeMato (24:16.756)
Absolutely. You need there needs to be that balance. I don't want to just rip myself to shreds, but I definitely do. I mean, I went to an art high school. I went to college for media studies. I went to grad school for TV production. All of these different things were were filled with critiques where I was ripped to absolute shreds on a daily basis. I'm used to it. I have very thick skin. I can take it.

Christian Brim (24:35.656)
Yes.

John DeMato (24:45.518)
And I'm my own worst critic and I like it that way because I don't ever want to get complacent ever. I'm obsessed with what I do because I love it more than anything. And I am, you know, so appreciative and grateful that I gave myself the opportunity to even go down this path. So I never take it for granted.

Christian Brim (25:11.507)
I'm going to pivot a second. how, how did you approach pricing in the beginning when you started and how do you approach pricing now? And, and a little side story on that. My son is graduating from, the university of Oklahoma this, well in three weeks, two weeks. and he just had his, senior pictures done.

And they turned out amazing and found out that this this photographer had I think she charged like a hundred dollars for the session and the deliverables and I told my wife I was like you need to pay her more and then you need to have her call me because she's not charging enough.

John DeMato (26:05.204)
Yeah, that sounds familiar. When I first started,

think it was last year or the year before. I was thumbing through some of my notes on my phone and I came across a, it was a copy for an ad, some kind of ad I posted on social. And it said, headshot special, $75 for 20 something photos. And I'm just like, whoa.

Christian Brim (26:18.951)
Mm-hmm.

John DeMato (26:36.65)
I don't even remember doing that, but I definitely, I can see myself doing that because I did so much free stuff for so long just to get exposure that never exposed me to a damn thing other than to just basically shoot for free. which I still do on occasion by the way, but free free is not exactly the way I'd put it. It's an exchange, an equal exchange of value now.

for different things might not be money, but it will be something else that is of extreme value to me. But the way that I initially priced my then branded lifestyle portraits was I had someone else price it for me. My first client was a my first branding client was a is a personal branding expert.

Christian Brim (27:21.98)
Interesting.

John DeMato (27:32.014)
And at the time she was putting out her first book and didn't have a social media presence. And she asked me, and it was with her that I created the whole, you know, promotional images looking into the camera, the headshots, this, that were, but we're also going to shoot you on your computer. We're going to do some more lifestyle stuff, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It wasn't fully formed back then. Now I have a full system for loads of questions I ask, but back then it was just.

throwing stuff against the wall during a phone conversation. And that's what happened. So she goes, how much for the entire day? And I said, I don't know 750. She goes, how about 1500? I'm like, done. And from there, she then initially priced my three tiers of service. And since that time, they've all gone up significantly.

But recently, not recently, about two and a half years ago, I stopped raising my rates and left them where they are. And the reason behind that for now is because I like the level of saturation that I'm getting from my inbounds and I don't want to screw the pooch. So I'm leaving it where it is because

Christian Brim (28:51.25)
Right.

John DeMato (28:54.07)
I want the same amount of traffic to come in year to year. And over the past three, four years, I've basically been at the same level, you know, plus or minus 10 grand, but basically riding way further than I ever thought I'd be when I first quit, you know, to think I gross a hundred grand taking pictures. thought that was a pipe dream and we're, past that now.

Christian Brim (29:10.822)
Right.

John DeMato (29:18.958)
But, the reason why I don't want to raise the rates and, and, and change the equilibrium of what's going on is because I'm thinking about what's next. And in order to truly have the mental space and the creative space to work on what's next, I need that money to be consistent. Therefore, as I'm working on it, let's keep it where it is. Let's work on the other thing. Let's try to build in more retainer work. Let's try to raise up.

Christian Brim (29:27.347)
Mmm.

John DeMato (29:48.078)
you know, the the gross that's coming in, ultimately what I'm netting after taxes and everything. And then we'll raise the rates to something else. And then when it gets to another point, I can then start training photographers. And then we have a whole different bag that I really want to work with as well. So it's a process. It's slow growing. It's a long term game. Ultimately, I'm happy though, with where I am rates wise now.

Christian Brim (29:53.576)
Right.

Christian Brim (30:14.515)
I love that you said that it gave you the creative space because one of the things that I talk about in the book is that profit and cash flow that generates is critical because if you don't have financial peace from those things, you can't be creative.

Like it sucks the energy out of you. And I've seen time and time again, people implement profit first and, hit that transformation where whatever it was that was causing the anxiety. So it could have been that they just flat out weren't making enough money. it may have been that they were making money, but they're, they weren't sure.

John DeMato (30:45.165)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (31:11.705)
about the stability of it or how much they were going to owe in taxes or, you know, what's the top side potential like something's driving that financial anxiety. And, when you, when you solve that problem for them and they move into that space where they have financial peace and, can open up their creative toolbox again, it just changes their lives.

John DeMato (31:38.018)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I still I'm still on the roller coaster. However, I also have retainer work that that goes a long way. I'm working on acquiring more retainer work. And and I will also say that while I am on the roller coaster, it's it's a different ride than it was 10 years ago. It's not because, you know, during that time during the beginning,

It's full desperation mode. You're basically just looking for someone that can write you a check and you do not care what you're photographing. Whereas now your high months are considerably higher, mine were, than back in the day. So, you know, if you're walking away with something that's 10, 15 times more than what you were averaging when you first started, the world looks

very different and you can stomach a month where you're dipping because you know that you have two to three clients that are coming in the door guaranteed for a certain amount down the line. And you also of course have the retainer work. And as I said, I'm working on getting more retainer work. So that's really where the key lies the retainer work.

Christian Brim (32:59.407)
Yeah, because a lot of creatives end up with unpredictable revenue and cashflow. And that certainly is anxiety. like, even if you end up with, you know, a couple hundred thousand dollars over the course of the year, you know, 80 % of it comes in the second half of the year, you're very anxious the first half, right? Because it's not there. So it's not just the amount, it's the predictability.

John DeMato (33:21.699)
Yes.

Christian Brim (33:28.947)
It's kind of like, you know, it's interesting with salespeople. did a study of commission only salespeople and those that were on a salary and a bonus. And it was a very high percentage chose the more predictable, right? Rather than the a hundred percent, but those that chose the a hundred percent commission made much more money than

And so I think what you're saying, your experience at the beginning, at the outset is most every entrepreneur's journey is they're choosing predictability and leaving profit and more money on the table.

John DeMato (34:16.214)
Yeah, especially when you're just trying to find your footing. You're trying to find your voice. You're trying to find like for a photographer, trying to find your shooting voice, trying to figure out who you want to work with. What kind of life do you want to live? And that's dictated by the type of work that you take on. And when you're first starting out, you don't know anything.

I mean, don't know how else to put it. You don't know a damn thing. And it's, it's really a crap shoot. But like I said, and the other thing about, you know, when you have the dips and you have the high moments, you never get too high and you never get too low over the course of time, because you're building those muscles up to understand, okay, this is where it's going. And what it also does is it helps you understand how to leverage your time better.

Christian Brim (34:43.507)
Right.

John DeMato (35:13.73)
So when you're busy, you busy shooting, you understand that that that is a different mindset from when you're not busy shooting, but it doesn't mean sit around on the couch, watching Netflix, doing nothing. You know, that's the time that you need to focus on planting more seeds.

Christian Brim (35:13.841)
Mm.

John DeMato (35:37.678)
and you plant those seeds in a myriad ways, you know, you're writing content, you're writing relevant and valuable content, you're not just putting your portfolio up there to look all fancy, because ultimately, no one cares that you shoot pretty photos, unless you point out to them why these photos are important to them, and why they need these pictures. And that's where the storytelling comes into play with regards to the way that you create content. And then it then there's outreach, you know,

And not just trying to here's my portfolio. Here's my services. I've never talked to you, but I'm in this LinkedIn thing and you connected with me. So let me just, you know, barf out all this crap so that you can hire me. Right. Because that's how you're supposed to do it. No, you need to sow the proper seeds by, you know, creating an opportunity for them to want to reach out to you, for them to want to engage you.

Christian Brim (36:22.194)
Yeah.

John DeMato (36:33.666)
So you need to engage them first in a way that shows that you care. And these are the things that you can do with your time when you're not actually shooting. So because at the end of the day, it's a business, it's not a hobby. So you gotta work and that's how it is.

Christian Brim (36:47.503)
No. Yeah. If you were to go back 10 years, and, talk to your younger self, what, what advice would you give the young John D'Amato?

John DeMato (36:58.808)
Man, I would help the young John DeMato crush it is what I would do because I was all over the place, man. was just like throwing stuff. I mean, let me rephrase. We're always iterating and throwing stuff against the wall and not everything sticks. If you're a business owner, everyone understands that it is just the nature. It's the path we chose and that's the way it works and that's okay.

because everything that slides down is a learning lesson that you can take away to apply, to be able to get something that's a little stickier on that wall. but probably the biggest thing that I would tell myself first, when I first started out is, you got to find the people that you want to serve.

Christian Brim (37:30.803)
Mm-hmm.

John DeMato (37:51.232)
You don't want to just serve everybody. You don't want to spend all of your time being spread too thin and you know, half an inch deep. got to go, you got to go narrow and all the way down with these people. need to understand how they, how they communicate the value of what you do for them. Understand what that means to them. Speak their language or as one of my colleagues and friends, his book is called Lingo.

you know, understand their lingo and put and communicate with their lingo in mind, because you need to be able to establish the fact that you care about enough about these people to learn what they care about and how they communicate. And that that would have that would have sped up the learning curve alone. Forget about the photography. Forget about the actual, you know, you know how to post and when all that stuff.

Just that would have sped the learning curve up measurably.

Christian Brim (38:53.267)
Okay, so here's the follow-up question. Would the young John DeMato have listened to you?

John DeMato (38:59.47)
Yes. Otherwise he would have been slapped in the back of the head and be like, shut up and listen.

Christian Brim (39:01.424)
Excellent.

Well, yeah, I get asked that question occasionally and I'm like, yeah, I mean, here's what I tell myself, but I'm not 100 % sure that I would have listened.

John DeMato (39:15.118)
All right. To be fair, Christian, to be fair, to be fair to what you just said. I quit TV at 35. I would have listened. If you mentioned this to me after grad school at 26, if I would have talked to myself back then, that might've been a different story. But, the 35 year old John, yes, he would have listened because he

Christian Brim (39:34.611)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (39:38.739)
Yeah.

You had enough experience to know.

John DeMato (39:44.91)
I was smart enough to know that I didn't know a whole hell of a lot and I was open to anyone that gave me any sense of attention and advice because they genuinely cared. Yes. But in my twenties, I know what I'm doing. I'll figure it out. That would have been me back then.

Christian Brim (40:03.699)
How do people find out more about you and what you do?

John DeMato (40:10.766)
They just send up the bat signal. I'll see it and then I'll give them a shout. Now, fair point. All right. Let's talk about, let's talk about outside the city limits. The best place to find me is my website, johndomato.com. And on there, I have all my links to my socials. You can connect with me through that way. And, and for those that are interested in learning more about what it is that I do for the people that I serve.

Christian Brim (40:15.153)
What if they're outside of Gotham?

John DeMato (40:39.89)
I write a blog three times a week and it's on my website. You can check it out, sign up for it and learn a little more about it.

Christian Brim (40:42.375)
Nice.

Christian Brim (40:48.647)
We'll have all of those links in the show notes. John, I really appreciate your time, your candor, your experience here. It has been a pleasure talking to you. Thank you very much.

John DeMato (41:01.678)
Thank you, Christian. The pleasure was all on this side of the screen, my friend.

Christian Brim (41:06.227)
flatter it'll get you everywhere. Listeners, if you like what you hear, please subscribe to the podcast, rate the podcast, share the podcast. If you don't like what you hear, shoot us a message and get rid of John and get somebody else. Until then, ta ta for now.