Overcoming Imposter Syndrome in the Creative Industry | Jordan Kirkham

In this conversation, Jordan Kirkham shares his journey in the creative industry, discussing his challenges, including self-esteem and impostor syndrome. He emphasizes the importance of teamwork and how fear can be a catalyst for growth. Jordan reflects on his experiences in production roles and the fulfillment he finds in collaborating with others. The discussion highlights the evolution of an entrepreneur and the significance of embracing uncertainty in pursuing new opportunities. In this conversation, Jordan Kirkham shares his journey through career shifts, personal growth, and the importance of discipline in entrepreneurship. He reflects on the challenges of navigating life changes, finding clarity in his career direction, and the significance of focusing on strengths rather than weaknesses. The discussion also highlights the value of team building, lessons learned from past partnerships, and the necessity of setting profit goals for sustainable success.

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Transcript

Jordan Kirkham (00:00.526)
I'm always video focused first.

Christian Brim (00:01.273)
Ha ha.

Christian Brim (00:06.305)
Yeah, no, I get it. Welcome to another episode of the Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Special shout out to our one listener in Margate, Florida. Florida man, thank you for listening this morning. Joining me today, Jordan Kirkham with Story is Granger Studios in sunny San Diego.

Good morning, Jordan.

Jordan Kirkham (00:37.848)
Good morning.

Christian Brim (00:39.981)
So why don't you tell the audience who Jordan is, what story is Greater Studios is all about.

Jordan Kirkham (00:47.928)
Yeah, Christian, thanks for having me on the podcast. Yeah, so sunny San Diego, father of three beautiful girls and my wife and I, live out here in a rural town outside of central San Diego called Ramona and a cute little country town, lot of wineries, cattle country, and pretty much everyone has chickens. But my work in...

Christian Brim (00:58.713)
God bless you.

Christian Brim (01:14.233)
Nice.

Jordan Kirkham (01:16.684)
that one of the main studios I worked out of is in town in Mission Valley. And I started my career in the creative industries about 20 years ago with mostly going into photography. I thought I wanted to be a National Geographic photographer as a little kid. That was my big thing I wanted to do. And out of college, I had a professor tell me that by the time I finished my photojournalism career and trying to get into the National Geographic,

that everything was going to change so much, that I was going to have to relearn everything again. And he was very true.

Christian Brim (01:54.765)
Was he prescient or, or yeah, that's weird.

Jordan Kirkham (01:57.902)
And so I actually never finished college. I ended up bouncing around and I eventually just took the college of YouTube and learned everything I needed to know when I needed to know it. And yeah, started my business. I was working for a church and realized I couldn't support a family with 30 hours a week on a church budget. So I had a couple of friends getting married.

And they said, hey, can you fill my wedding? And I said, sure. And that turned into about five years worth of jumping into the wedding film industry and eventually event filming. But my family was tired of me being gone on the weekends. So I jumped into the corporate scene and have been there ever since, pretty much for the last 10 years. And I've been mostly doing local commercials for a lot of local businesses here in San Diego.

Christian Brim (02:32.567)
Yes.

Christian Brim (02:56.387)
So when you say event, like I would assume that San Diego's got a lot of convention business. you film those?

Jordan Kirkham (03:03.374)
Plenty, yes. We do, yeah, we do a lot of events, corporate events and convention events. Obviously we have the San Diego Convention here if anyone's ever been here for Comic-Con. So we have that every year, but also hundreds of other major events here because of our sunny weather.

Obviously people want this to be a fun destination for their corporate events. So yeah, we definitely book a lot of those and meet a lot of people from all around the world.

Christian Brim (03:28.599)
Yes.

Christian Brim (03:39.821)
San Diego, you know, I've said this, there's only two places I've visited that I would live if I didn't live in Oklahoma. Lots of lovely places to visit, but the only place that I would choose to live besides the rural English countryside is San Diego. And then I had a friend of mine that was a lifelong San Diego resident, lived on Coronado Island, and I'm like...

And, and, and he moved to Tennessee and I'm like, what? Like I, I thought that like Coronado was like the pinnacle of living like, and yeah, but he, packed up his family and during COVID moved to, Nashville. So whatever a different, and then I have another friend that lives in San Diego that moved there from New Hampshire.

Jordan Kirkham (04:19.26)
It is. Yes.

Christian Brim (04:35.325)
And he told me he moved to San Diego because he wanted to focus on his business. And I'm like, okay. And, I said, that seems like that's a lot of distraction, you know, it's I'd be at the beach every day. And he said, no, no, no, no. I'm from New Hampshire. I love the mountains. And so I moved to San Diego. like, yeah. So yeah, different strokes.

Jordan Kirkham (05:00.586)
and strokes. Thankfully we do have the best of both worlds and if you want to dip your toes in the sand and build a sandcastle and then obviously in winter time then drive up into the mountains and build a snowman you can do that so and I've done it before it's a lot of fun.

Christian Brim (05:19.811)
So what would you say, I mean, you've been in this long enough. What has been the biggest challenge over those 10 years from a business standpoint?

Jordan Kirkham (05:33.986)
Hmm. My biggest challenge has definitely been my own self. And I would say imposter syndrome, self-esteem, and the growth in the direction of really, really.

Jordan Kirkham (05:54.176)
committing to my business in the right ways. I bounced around in probably the first maybe five, six years, not only in the wedding industry, but a lot of other different avenues of the creative world within film production. So I would feel like I was niching down into a different style of...

Christian Brim (05:56.441)
Mm.

Jordan Kirkham (06:21.738)
editing or working with different clients or trying this or trying that. so doing a lot of different things as well as freelancing myself out to other companies and working for others. And even at one time picking up a part-time gig, because I thought I just needed a regular 95 with a local realtor company and quickly realized that going back to the regular nine to five was not something I could do. In fact,

That was the very first time in my life that I experienced my very first real panic attack. I was working, being put back in the box. was literally in a high rise in town and had my own little office and unfortunately didn't share it with anyone. And I am a people person, 100 %

Christian Brim (07:00.451)
being put back into the box.

Jordan Kirkham (07:15.982)
And there were days and weeks where I wouldn't see anybody and I was just working on edits or running out and filming some stuff, but coming back. And I didn't know it was a panic attack at first. It actually took a couple of weeks to realize what they were because I just thought, you know, it's like, okay, well, just, you know, feeling tired, feeling a little bit overwhelmed. I think I just need to walk outside for a little bit, some fresh air, come back in.

But a couple of months went by and I realized, no, these were panic attacks and my inability to actually see, the blue sky and people was a major detriment to my health. so, you know, I quickly realized, Hey, you know, chat with the company, let them know that this wasn't the right fit. And, they didn't have the right system set up in place anyways, to keep my business long or my, my position long-term. So.

Christian Brim (07:53.17)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (07:58.594)
Mm-hmm.

Jordan Kirkham (08:11.842)
They realized, yeah, I don't think this is actually working out for us either. So it ended up being a mutual split. But, yeah, it really, I realized a couple of things in that season was, that one, I have to be working with people, and seeing people. So, you know, my favorite daily routine is actually to start mornings like this with a podcast or with a meeting, or with a connection and, then getting into my day. And so.

That's, yeah, I think, and then when it comes to self-esteem and imposter syndrome, it's reared its ugly head over the years in times when I wanted to expand or I wanted to go after a big client or I wanted to really niche down in the exact place I wanna be and just stepping out and really.

honoring the time I've spent in the creative industries and saying, hey, Jordan, you've got this. You know what to do. You know the right people. You know how to get this done and to not be worried about that and step forward out of, you know, not out of fear, but out of, you know, excitement of being able to pretty much take on almost any type of creative project.

Christian Brim (09:13.997)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (09:29.891)
Do you feel like you still struggle with that issue of self-esteem or imposter syndrome?

Jordan Kirkham (09:37.6)
I do, yeah, if I'm 100 % honest, it definitely comes around. But I can recognize it much sooner.

Christian Brim (09:41.101)
Yeah. Well, I was, I was hoping that would be your answer because I think, I think that, I have been reading recently a lot, and, well, I read a lot anyway, but specifically on this topic of, ego, self-esteem, shame, happiness.

Like a lot of different sources. and, and what I I'm, I'm kind of formulating in my mind is this, this idea that one, we, we all have this inherent, feeling, like it's a universal human condition, of, being insufficient, inadequate, incomplete, you know, whether that's on a

spiritual level, psychological level, like it's part of who we are. And I think that when we have that fear that manifests itself, know, some people call it imposter syndrome, but you know, it's really this fear of we're unworthy, that what we're trying to do, someone's gonna find out that we're not

genuine or real is actually a positive thing, I think, because what that tells me when I start to get that feeling is that I'm pushing myself beyond what I'm comfortable with. And so I think that fear reaction is actually a good thing. You can't get rid of it because it's part of the self-defense mechanism in our brain.

Like, you know, when you're going into uncharted territory, your, your brain wants to keep you safe. So it's, it's, it's telling you, let's not do that. Let's sit on the couch instead. Cause that's, or let's, let's do video edits because I know how to do that. Like, you know, it, it's, it, tries to push you down to something predictable. so I would say that, you know, if, if you're not feeling imposter syndrome or fear, or, even just

Christian Brim (12:08.329)
little anxiety about what you're doing in your business, then you're probably just playing it safe. What do you think of that?

Jordan Kirkham (12:18.658)
Yeah, I would definitely agree with that. And I mean, if most people are honest, I mean, we think about people that are always very confident, you know, that, you know, they just, they speak, they act with their business or, you know, with friends or family or brand new people they meet. And, you know, you watch them from afar, you watch them up close and they just seem like, man, they've got it all together. They know what they're doing. They're, you know, they're just, you know,

straight from here to the moon on their trajectory in life. Everything just seems to be aligning and perfect. But when you sit them down in an interview or if you're good friends with them, they will always at some point share their fears, share their inadequacies. So we always compare ourselves to what we see out there and assume that, my gosh, okay, maybe I'm not being a...

Christian Brim (13:03.577)
Sure.

Jordan Kirkham (13:16.558)
confident enough for this or that or the other thing. But the truth is we're all human and we all do it to some level.

Christian Brim (13:24.183)
Yeah. And I don't, I don't think it's, I don't think that, self-confidence and confidence and having fear are, mutually exclusive. Like, you know, I, I think, I think the fear of going into something unknown, whatever that is, maybe it's, it's, you know, for, for me, and this sounds strange, but you know, I guess I wouldn't say that it rises the level of fear, but

Like I started woodworking again after a 10 year hiatus and I'm not a woodworker. I'm not a detailed person. It's something that I'm not good at. And I'm actually doing it to get comfortable being uncomfortable. So when I, when I think about going out and doing woodworking, I'm sitting there and I'll, I'll meet this resistance. It's like,

Well, you you got to do this next and you don't really know how to do that. And do you really want to do that? And so it's not necessarily fear, but there is this resistance to doing it. But it doesn't go away, right? And so I don't have any confidence in woodworking. you know, I don't have I don't have vast experience. don't, you know, I'm not a master at it. So I can't come to it with confidence.

But what I can do is come to it with this attitude of it's okay that you're not good at it, right? Because you've not done it and you're learning. But when we move into the realm of where we do have experience and we do know that what we're doing, I think it's possible to still be confident in your skills.

But you're pushing yourself into a new situation where you still have fear. So we're going to do our first live event. We're going to do a two-day workshop in October of this year here in Oklahoma City. We're bringing in people from all over the country for creative entrepreneurs to work on their business. And I'm going to tell you, it's very uncomfortable.

Christian Brim (15:41.453)
I mean, you we've never done this, you know, signing the contract with the hotel and making a financial commitment, that was uncomfortable. but I am confident in certain aspects of it. I'm confident in the content and then the speakers and what we're trying to achieve. Are we going to be successful? I have no idea, but that, doesn't matter. That's the unpredictability that you have to get comfortable with. Like, you know, I don't know. So.

Is there something where you stepped out and you weren't sure of the outcome, but you still had confidence that like you said, I've got a lot of experience. know what I'm doing. I know the right people. Do you have any similar experience?

Jordan Kirkham (16:27.282)
yeah. I mean, there's definitely been plenty of productions that I have said yes to that I was completely outside of my personal wheelhouse. But I will say in that, in those experiences, especially when there's, you know, a sizable budget and I know that I can hire friends. It's actually where I come most alive. I've I find personally as being a producer and one of my actually

One of my biggest goals actually this year is to really step more into that producer role of just saying, hey, I'm better in front of the camera or next to it than behind it. And I am better at a coffee shop with my computer versus at my studio editing behind my whole editing suite and just finding the right people for a job. there was a job a couple of years ago that I'm still under NDA, but it was a big pharmaceutical company.

And they needed to film a local doctor here in San Diego. She didn't want to travel. And so they needed to find a studio. And we were working with a creative agency out of New York. And they said, hey, this is the project we need. We need a big green screen, green psych studio. need this and that, the other thing. And the project scope kept growing and growing and growing, which was great, because that meant the budget was going to keep growing and growing.

And every time they would come back with a new need, I said, OK, that's great. Yes. It's going to require this type of professional. We're going to need to hire this and bring this type of equipment in. But we totally got you. We can do it. Here's the next budget. Mark, we need to meet. And they said, great. That's awesome. Sounds good. Send it to us. And it's just one of those projects that kept growing. And on production day, actually, our pre-production day, we're setting everything up. And everything was coming together beautifully.

their director and producer and whole team were there. And I was like, okay, this is going to be really good. I'm excited, excited for this. And we were doing some test shoots and everything was good. So the next day we come in and the doctor comes in and we're getting her all set up with makeup and we're running a couple, you know, new test shots that they had just adjusted the night before, of course. And we had a particular camera setup that they wanted. It was really redundant, but you know, it was at their request.

Christian Brim (18:43.309)
Yes.

Jordan Kirkham (18:50.952)
And, but we were running into an issue with a particular angle that they didn't really like as much. And so I remember I had this moment where they came up to me and we had this little powwow and I said, okay, well, you know, this isn't quite what we planned and thought we were actually going to be getting, can we make some adjustments? And so quickly, you know, it's like, well, I don't know actually how to solve this exact problem, but Hey, my crew's here. We're all doing this, pulled everyone in and I looked at everyone and said, okay, this is what we need to do. How do we solve this problem?

looked right at my DP. Like I was a deer in the headlights of like, all right, buddy, help me solve this problem here. Cause I have no clue how to do this. And he's like, okay, well, in order to get this, we need to be able to mount the camera on the jib in this direction and do this. So then I, you know, I look at my camera operator and said, okay, know, Michael, do we get our, you know, how do we make this happen? And how quickly can we make it happen? He's like, oh, we can switch cameras out in about 25 minutes. I'm like, all right, we got 25 minutes, Michael.

Christian Brim (19:26.805)
You can figure this out, right?

Jordan Kirkham (19:49.262)
please switch off the cameras, we gotta get this going. Great, awesome. But it was that one moment in that situation, I'm like, I have no clue how to solve this issue, but I know everyone else does. And obviously that's why I'm paying them, they're all here. And about maybe an hour later, I'm standing back, we hit action a couple times, we're getting some shots, and I see everybody just in sync. And it was probably the first time in my career that I said to myself, if I could do this every day, I'd show up as a producer every day.

because I felt so alive in that moment of like, I knew the right crew, I knew the right people. I was excited to bring everybody together. I mean, as a kid, I grew up, you know, being that kid that, you know, one of my buddies would call up and be like, hey, you wanna play? You you wanna come hang out? And I'd immediately call like three or four other friends and be like, hey, we're going over to so and so's house. And then the whole crew would show up. But that was just me and I loved it.

you my friends would get a little upset like, hey man, I just invited you, not the crew. So I was just inviting you. But it was always, I always felt, you know, I didn't want to leave people out. I, you know, I'm always an includer. And so in that moment, I just, you know, really came alive, but it definitely came, you know, out of, and everything came to fruition out of that initial fear and worry of like, I don't know how to do this. I've never shot on a large green screen by.

Christian Brim (20:48.461)
Yeah, I didn't want those people here.

Jordan Kirkham (21:12.588)
before. I've never hired a jib, like a legit big rig jib operator, and a bunch of other things that we needed for this. bringing the right team coming together, it was definitely a beautiful moment in my career.

Christian Brim (21:27.041)
Yeah. And there's a lot of different ways that that could have gone differently, right? Like if, if you end up, you could have not taken the gig to begin with, but as it expanded, you could have panicked and let that fear dictate what you were doing. And maybe you did feel fear in the moment of like, you know, as it kept growing and growing. But I think you, you touch on a great point.

Jordan Kirkham (21:33.282)
Yes.

Christian Brim (21:56.789)
I think entrepreneurs get to a point where, know, all right, they figured their craft out, whatever it is, and they've gotten really good at it. And for some, they are content to stay there. But a lot of us want to continue to grow. And I think the natural step is what you're talking about, where

you move into the manager coordinator, producer, creator role where you're putting the people together to create something that you can't create yourself. and that's, that's true in any business. think it's easier for us to get our brains around with a creative industry because that, that makes more sense when you start talking about

jib operators and having a director of photography and you know, all of these other elements. But, but like in my business, I, you know, it was about getting the people in place where they were actually, they were better at what they did than I was. And it was then about, creating this common purpose for them to work together. and that's where I think.

You know.

The deeper satisfaction comes with being an entrepreneur is moving into that stage.

Jordan Kirkham (23:37.026)
I would definitely agree with that. Yeah, I've had a lot of friends locally who have shifted in their careers or within their particular niche in the creative industries. And I think a lot of times it's been hard, but it's been good to see people start to move and adjust into the space and place that they were meant to be versus the place that they felt comfortable.

Christian Brim (24:03.897)
Mm.

Jordan Kirkham (24:07.094)
And oftentimes I've had friends have to move out of state or they've changed careers. And sometimes it's hard because I'm seeing friends move out of the industry or people that I might not hang out with as much because we're not in a particular working relationship, but still be able to just recognize and be excited for the shifts and changes.

Christian Brim (24:10.07)
Hmm.

Jordan Kirkham (24:33.026)
that have occurred in their life because they're actually really stepping more into really who they're meant to be. And yeah, it's hard, but it's been good. We've actually had a lot of people here in San Diego either switch careers or move out of San Diego for various reasons. And so it's definitely a shifting world here in the last probably three, four years, but.

Christian Brim (25:00.717)
Well, I want to pivot back to something you said, where you said that you spent a lot of time, I'm going to use my words, trying to find your groove, going back and forth and then taking the nine to five. Where did that moment of clarity come of like, okay, this is what I'm supposed to be doing.

Jordan Kirkham (25:25.934)
Hmm. Yeah, actually there was more moment of creativity or more and more of clarity. There was more clarity that came recently actually, surprisingly. I mean, I've been in the creative industries for over 20 years now. I've had my business a little over 12 years, actually almost 14 years. And then within running my business full time,

and just focusing on video production versus a lot of the other creative things I was helping to do for other businesses. There was actually a moment about a good year ago that I thought I was actually completely switching careers and industries. Our family had a really bad mold situation where our whole family got super sick. It was a home we had lived in for several years. And that...

was a catalyst for a lot of learning and lot of trying to understand building health and a lot of things. so over some downturns in the industry over the last couple of years and some shifting, I thought I was actually going to be switching careers and jumping into the home health space and was actually launching another business as I was continuing with my video production company.

and was trying to put the pieces and the puzzle and all these things together. And we were also right in the middle of a move and our family was transitioning. But I had this pretty big moment of clarity about maybe six months ago now that I was, as I was looking at all the different things I've done in the industry, all the different opportunities I've been thankful to be a part of and all the different shifts I've taken within my own business.

that I've now realized, hey, I'm actually at a point, much farther down the road to really say, I've been here long enough, why do I need to jump ship? And why do I need to switch careers? And it's like, I have a business, it's moving, I have clients, I have a name here in the industry here in San Diego.

Jordan Kirkham (27:44.488)
surprisingly, I actually have more Google reviews than any other business, you know, that's been here twice as long, three times longer than I have. which is really funny to think about. and so there was just this, all these other, you know, like I've built something strong and good and why would I want to leave this? And so I had to do some soul searching and thinking, okay, you know, what am I really good at? What do, what do I really love doing?

And it was really understanding again, hey, I'm a producer. I love bringing people together. I love building bridges in the industry and I love solving problems. And so I was like, I can do that in any industry and any career that I have. Why not do that and really focus on that aspect of who I am in my business.

versus completely switching careers and trying to start a new company. So it was that realization that I can take the core of who I am anywhere I want to. Doesn't matter the industry, doesn't matter the company. But if I really spend time developing what I'm really good at at my core, then my business is gonna grow or the company I work for is gonna grow.

Christian Brim (28:48.025)
Sure.

Jordan Kirkham (29:03.168)
And so it was like, okay, I already have this company. It's already going. I just need to be better at what I'm good at. And so that was a, that was a really good wake up call and, you know, realization that I didn't need to jump ship. I didn't need to switch careers. I just needed to get better at what I love doing.

Christian Brim (29:22.145)
I love that phrase better at what I'm good at. Yeah. I think there's a lot of wisdom in focusing on what you're good at rather than trying to focus on what you're not good at, whether that means, delegating, you know, initially to get the things that you're not good at off of your plate. or it means.

You know, like I can, I can always improve, what I'm already good at. There's always room for improvement. There's always, and, and, you know, focusing on the negative and your weakness that, that tends to suck a lot more energy than, leaning into what you're good at, because that usually makes you happy and then recharges your, your energy. Right. And

I know for me that was a tough lesson. Like I felt like as the entrepreneur, I had to figure it all out. I like, as I was responsible for it. And so like I had to be good at everything. Well, that's not reasonable, right? and just acknowledging that your own limitations and then surrounding yourself, whether it's employees or contractors or, or

Partners, relationships, whatever that is with the things that you don't do well is very empowering because then it's like I don't have to worry that I'm not good at running a jib.

Jordan Kirkham (31:08.216)
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I would definitely say if something that would have helped me in my career was obviously to come to where I'm at now much sooner. You know, we always say that like, you know, hindsight's 2020. We wish we knew the things we knew now way back when. And there was, there was actually a pretty solid moment in my career when I was stepping into, you know, growing and expanding and networking.

Christian Brim (31:25.154)
Yeah.

Jordan Kirkham (31:36.582)
and jumping out of the wedding film industry, like, you know, right into the corporate industries. And there was a close friend that we were, you know, we partnered together on a lot of projects, you know, just hired each other out. Hey, you know, can you help me on this or vice versa? And there were probably about two to three years of us working really hard to try and actually legitimately partner together, like build a company together, launch it together, be co-owners together.

And something would always come up and we'd either family or it was mostly external challenges that would keep us somehow from connecting and actually putting our businesses physically together. But what I realize now is that we had some similar, we were both good at the same thing. We were both good at networking and we were both good at the

Christian Brim (32:31.872)
Mmm.

Jordan Kirkham (32:34.114)
you know, being in person and the people. And neither of us were very good at executing the jobs that needed to happen. And so we'd actually get our own backlogs up and we'd kind of get overwhelmed. And then we'd both hunker down in our own projects and our own things and try to just find some balance. And then we'd both pick our heads back up like, hey, you're still there. And sometimes we'd actually even like.

rent and use the same office, you know, but sometimes, you know, we'd be working side by side for weeks. But sometimes we just felt like we never even, you know, saw each other. And what we realized and what I realize now is that obviously we had similar things that were both good at that. Had we actually started to build a team at that time in our trying to connect, we could have crushed it. You know, he was really good at sales.

and driving it home and pulling in the sale. And I was really good at the initial reach out and the followup and some of the core assist like putting systems in place and some other things. And so there were a lot of things that we could have done and worked together, but had we started building a team early and finding the right people to do the things that we either didn't want to do or didn't know how to do. This was about a little over 10 years ago. We could have built a really solid business really fast.

But we were both newly into the entrepreneurial space and trying to figure things out and our families were growing and shifting and changing. And so there was a lot of change that just kind of kept us from really understanding where we needed to be.

Christian Brim (34:14.913)
Yeah, I, I, I two things come to mind on that. One is you, you say, I wish I knew then what I know now. And I have, I have beat myself up a couple of times about like, why did it take you so long to figure that out? but you know,

Jordan Kirkham (34:33.932)
Yes.

Christian Brim (34:37.239)
The reality is that no one can do it for you. It's not like some, some mentor can come into you and dump all this into your brain and it just happened. You have to go through the experience to learn the lesson and it's hard. So, you know, sometimes you, you know, like me, I have to learn the lesson multiple times. I'm like, okay. Yeah. I, you know, I get it now.

Um, the, the second thing, um, I would say is that there, yeah, there's, there's, there's nothing more terrifying than two visionaries getting in a room and talking about potential, you know, and, and, and they, and they get their ideas going and like, wow, we could do this and this and that. And, then, then at the end it's like, okay, who's going to do a lit. That's not me. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Jordan Kirkham (35:20.224)
Yes.

Jordan Kirkham (35:30.414)
Who's gonna put in the work? Yep.

Christian Brim (35:34.755)
Well, and it's not that we're not willing to do the work. It's that the, needs to be done doesn't interest us. Right. The, the, the, the, know, most entrepreneurs, when they get to the point where they have to manage people or processes or, know, that, that maintaining a business part doesn't excite us and, and, you know, we can do it, but you know, it's not what we love.

Jordan Kirkham (35:37.368)
Sure.

Christian Brim (36:04.313)
and, I've seen a lot of entrepreneurs get really burnt out at that point where it's like, I, this isn't fun anymore. And, it's because, that's not what you're good at and why would it be fun?

Jordan Kirkham (36:17.784)
Yes, and we were at the same time, and this is very true in a lot of different careers, but definitely in the video production industry, we were masking our imposter syndrome with gear acquisition. So we were obviously newly into the career and a lot of guys, a lot of girls, we jump into the industry thinking we need this camera to get this job to be able to make more money.

And so we had, we were, we were deep into that trap thinking that, you know, we needed this and that other thing. And, uh, we both went into an obscene amount of debt, you know, trying to get them to do his thing, thinking that if we had this and if we had that, but, um, it was looking back, we were just hiding our imposter syndrome and, you know, thinking we needed this thing to be able to level up when really, you know, we just needed to hone in and in, into

you know, what we were really good at and really understanding ourselves and just, you know, having some more confidence in obviously what we knew at the time, which was a good amount to be able to, you know, start a business and, you know, work with clients and be able to do stuff. so, yeah, I think if I could go back in time and change one thing in my business, the very first thing I would tell myself is don't worry about the gear, rent it, borrow it.

Do not buy it, be the producer, but don't go buy that camera. Don't go buy this piece of gear and spend that money rather on the business development, personal development. And it would have taken me a lot farther, a lot faster.

Christian Brim (38:01.795)
had you had the benefit of my book from the outset, you would have read the chapter that talks about that distraction where I call it shiny object syndrome, which I think entrepreneurs in general are guilty of. But the way it manifests a lot of times,

Jordan Kirkham (38:25.484)
Yes, very much so.

Christian Brim (38:30.707)
is with new stuff for the business. And, you know, I speak very clearly to this in the book that if you don't know how you're going to make money with something you're spending money on, whether that's equipment or software or people, you know, it doesn't matter if you're going to invest your profit in something.

Or borrow money is even worse, but like you know if you're going to spend money on something, you need to have a clear idea of how you're going to make enough money to pay for it and then it is a good return on your investment and to kind of what you said. It's kind of like that not treating it like a business like it. You know that that you know applying this basic business principles. Yeah, good stuff.

Jordan Kirkham (39:20.579)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (39:24.345)
What would you say is, you know, sitting in 2025 is your biggest challenge right now? Biggest problem you're trying to solve for your business or for you?

Jordan Kirkham (39:49.358)
I'll probably speak personally because it definitely bleeds into the business side of things. And I think it would be the, you know, kind of how we talked a little bit, a little bit earlier about stepping out, you know, doing something that's a little different, a little outside of the comfort zone. But it's, it's, it's kind of like when you know the steps you need to take, but you're afraid to take them out of, you know,

different fears or worries or maybe lack of potential resources. I think for me, something that I've struggled with and I'm going to get real personal here is discipline. I've been a very fly by the seat of my pants, figure it out as you go, build the plane as you're flying. And I've been, I've almost in a lot of ways kind of thrived off of that.

Christian Brim (40:33.721)
Mmm.

Christian Brim (40:47.289)
Sure.

Jordan Kirkham (40:47.426)
You know, the adrenaline, the excitement of like, I don't know how this is going to work out, but you know, we're going to, we're going to jump from this cliff and we're going to, you know, try and figure out how to fly on the way down. And, but obviously, you know, having a family living in sunny San Diego, which is one of the most expensive places in the United States to live. you know, and a lot of other factors, there's, a level of, you know, discipline that comes with owning your own business, taking care of your own family.

Christian Brim (41:03.363)
Mm-hmm.

Jordan Kirkham (41:16.658)
that, you know, I've always known it's been lacking at some point, at some level that, really needed to, change. so, actually starting out this year, I had, a couple, coaches and people in my corner to help really kind of drive that out and, you know, say, Hey, you know, what is your personal discipline look like in your life? You know, your daily routines, your, ability to, you know,

come up with plans and stick to them and different things. And I've always felt like I've lived in this fight or flight slash chaotic, everything's gonna turn out okay. I've always had a sunny disposition and always give people the benefit of the doubt and always assuming it's just gonna work out.

just it's all going to work out. You're to wake up the next morning. It's all going to be okay. But there's been a level of detriment to that at the same time in growing my business and, you know, financial responsibilities and business responsibilities, relational responsibilities that have all required a level of discipline that has been lacking in it. So for me, I think it's, it's, it's honing that discipline within my business, doing the boring work, you know, creating some better systems.

Christian Brim (42:15.256)
Yeah.

Jordan Kirkham (42:40.475)
And, you know, having...

rebuilding and building a new level of discipline for myself and for my business to create sustainability, to create practicality, which, you know, has never been part of my vocabulary. And, you know, being able to build some things based off of knowledge and wisdom and understanding that, okay, this is how I do it. This is how it needs to be done.

and actually putting that into practice versus saying, well, I'm just going to do my own thing. I'm going to figure it out as they go. And, so that's, that's been, challenging, but good. And I know the direction that is actually going to be probably the most beneficial in my year this year, aside from beginning to also, continue my journey and niching down, in the, know, in my industry and where I ultimately want to head. So.

Christian Brim (43:22.253)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (43:41.119)
Yeah, I think creatives.

know, and entrepreneurs in general, like the whole idea of processes and systems is perceived as a negative. I know for me, you know, the idea of processes that sounded like big business. Like I don't want that.

to speak to you like being in the creative flow is comfortable. Like, you know, we're just going to figure it out as we go. And, and that feeds our problem solving, which is, which is honestly, I think that's the underlying compulsion of entrepreneurs is to solve problems. Like we see things like, let's fix it. And we get a lot of joy out of that. but I've come to, to realize that, you know, that works until it doesn't.

Jordan Kirkham (44:42.594)
Yes.

Christian Brim (44:43.529)
And, and, you know, for, for our business, we operated almost 20 years that way. but I realized that over that 20 years, I had not been doing, a lot of things, right. One of which was focusing on profit. We did not make, the money that we should have. And it was only when, I started to put in.

processes that we were able to have that result. And I would say that processes discipline actually equates to freedom. And so the thing that the thing that I was resistant to because I saw that as a limitation of the freedom is actually what has given me the freedom that I have now.

And you know, why didn't why did it take me so long to figure that out? I don't know

Jordan Kirkham (45:47.712)
Yes. Yeah, no good systems in place it does because it frees up our entrepreneurial brain to focus on what we need to focus on, which isn't necessarily the systems unless you're a systems engineer and that's your thing and that's what you love to do, which is great. There's plenty of people for that. But when you are able to implement systems in your business for growth, for focusing on profit,

for the financial side of things. does it really frees up our brain to be able to get better and do the things we love and obviously get more joy out of our business and our work and our creativity versus being stressed out that our systems are broken and you don't know how to fix it. So you just keep living in that stress mode. I think something for me,

that I wish I would have done a lot sooner, a lot, lot, lot sooner, like probably 10, 12 years ago, is really tried to under, like, right now I have a couple sticky notes that I look at every day and it's my financial goals, it's my profit goals, and it's my what I need to live in San Diego goals at a minimum, and then here's where I want to.

Christian Brim (47:04.87)
Mmm. Mm-hmm.

Jordan Kirkham (47:07.744)
live in San Diego, because you can live in San Diego and not enjoy anything because you are just grinding away, just trying to wake up the next day. But for my family, we love to get out. We love to explore. We obviously love going to the beach and really enjoying San Diego, but to really enjoy it in a way that you're actually enjoying it versus forcing yourself, it costs a little money to be able to do that. so

Christian Brim (47:08.377)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (47:34.776)
Yes.

Jordan Kirkham (47:36.866)
being able to look at the big numbers. I never understood how to do that because I was always focused on the day to day, waking up, paying the bill, but saying, here's the big number. How do I work backwards from that big number to be able to accomplish what I need to do? And I think that's one of the biggest things that I've gotten out of Profit First is you're looking at the big numbers first, and then you're working backwards to figure out how to get there.

Christian Brim (47:51.319)
Yes. Yes.

Jordan Kirkham (48:04.73)
And I think that's been probably one of the biggest things for me probably over the last three years. And I wish it would have been sooner to look at that big number first and say, okay, here's what we need to do. And then you put the systems in place to be able to get there.

Christian Brim (48:21.015)
Yeah, but I think you started with the first, like the post-it notes, like you've changed your intent. Yes. Profit first is a tool, but you you've decided that this is your intent. I want to have this much profit. And that's once you do that, all of your creative energy will come to bear and you'll figure it out. but it starts with making it a priority and saying, this is what I'm going to do.

Jordan Kirkham (48:34.104)
Yes.

Christian Brim (48:48.887)
Jordan, how do folks find out more about you and what you do?

Jordan Kirkham (48:55.15)
Yeah, so have a website, storyisgreater.com, and I am on all social channels at storyisgreater.com. And yeah, probably one of the quickest ways to find me. I'm on all the channels as well, and I love connecting with people on LinkedIn right now. just search Story Is Greater or Jordan Kirkham on LinkedIn and you'll find me. probably one of the...

Two biggest platforms I'm really focusing on this year is both YouTube and LinkedIn for business growth. And yeah, really excited being able to connect with a lot of really good people this year so far on LinkedIn, which is actually where we connected not too long ago to get this conversation started. So thanks for reaching out.

Christian Brim (49:35.181)
Yes? Yes?

Christian Brim (49:40.377)
Absolutely. Listeners go make Jordan's day and connect with him on LinkedIn or wherever you prefer. If you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. If you don't like what you've heard, send us a message and tell us what you would like and we'll get rid of Jordan. Until then, ta ta for now.