Hobby to Hustle: Building a Predictable Video Production Business | Ryan Koral

In this conversation, Ryan shares his journey from a college video production hobbyist to a successful entrepreneur in the video production industry. He discusses the challenges of transitioning from wedding films to business storytelling, the importance of predictability in business, and the need to adapt to market changes. Ryan emphasizes the significance of humility in entrepreneurship and the necessity of having a problem to solve to maintain motivation and growth. In this conversation, Ryan and Christian discuss their experiences in the video production industry, emphasizing the importance of defining a niche, adapting to changes in technology, and building a supportive community for entrepreneurs. They share insights on the challenges of transitioning from wedding films to corporate video production, the value of coaching and accountability, and the necessity of showing up authentically in business. The discussion highlights the significance of learning from mistakes and the role of community in fostering growth and success.

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Transcript

Ryan (00:00.373)
straight up.

Christian Brim (00:01.276)
Absolutely it's edited, but not by me. Randy, my excellent tenured audio engineer.

Ryan (00:03.062)
Okay, great.

Ryan (00:11.32)
Perfect. Thanks, Randy. And if I belch or pass gas or anything, that'll be in the outtakes.

Christian Brim (00:14.144)
Yes. There's some things he can't fix, you know.

Ryan (00:22.776)
Love it. Thanks for having me.

Christian Brim (00:25.35)
Welcome to another episode of the profitable creative the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit I am your host Christian Brim Special shout out to our one listener in Washington DC The District of Columbia is a fascinating city if you haven't been I highly encourage it wouldn't want to live there though Joining me today the infamous Ryan

coral of Tell Studios and Studios Sherpas. Ryan, welcome.

Ryan (00:58.648)
Christian, thanks for having me, man. Is this episode sponsored by Washington, D.C., like the travel bureau or something like that? No, okay.

Christian Brim (01:04.372)
No, no, although I should reach out to them and ask.

Ryan (01:09.378)
Yeah. Cause after that little intro, mean, I don't know why they wouldn't want to. I have pretty recently too.

Christian Brim (01:11.828)
Have you been to DC?

Yeah. my, I've only been once I went, took a family trip and my, my favorite, there are two things that we did that were my favorite. The first was, the tomb of the unknown soldier and the changing of the guard. That was just chilling. And, then actually the archives, and seeing the constitution and the declaration of independence.

Ryan (01:29.056)
Yeah, it's powerful. Yep.

Ryan (01:37.258)
Mm. Yeah.

Christian Brim (01:43.136)
I got chills at both of those. So what was your favorite?

Ryan (01:45.837)
Yeah.

I went to the national prayer breakfast most recently and the people that you meet at this event is pretty outstanding. and I did get to be in the same room as the president of the United States. So that was, I've never been in the same room as the president. So, check that off the bucket list.

Christian Brim (02:07.216)
Where do they have that meeting?

Ryan (02:10.378)
I was at the Hilton, the same hotel where Reagan was shot back in, I think, 82. So, yeah. But yeah, cool event. But yeah, I don't know. There's, mean, there's so much cool stuff there.

Christian Brim (02:15.442)
Okay. Yeah.

interesting.

Christian Brim (02:25.448)
Yeah, now you could spend weeks. It is fascinating. All right, so tell the listeners who don't know you, I don't know who wouldn't know you, but tell the ones that don't know you who you are and what you do.

Ryan (02:27.65)
Yeah.

Ryan (02:37.612)
Maybe, unless it's just all the listeners for my show that listen to your show. Hopefully it's more than that. yeah. So those people should, you better know me. If you listen to my show, you better know who I am. yeah. So 20 years ago, a little over 20 years ago, I was working at this little Christian college in Metro Detroit, Michigan. And I had convinced my boss to buy me a video camera and a computer so I could start making videos, which was kind of just this like little, barely a hobby thing starting in middle school, making zombie movies.

transitioning to even dumber things throughout high school. So my boss bought me this stuff to help promote all the amazing, I mean, my life was changed at the school and I thought if I could tell stories like mine, it would make it a lot easier for the school to essentially sell what it was that they were trying to sell to get more people to come to their school that would be right fit students and faculty and staff. And so I started making videos for the school and I was doing it like a lot and I realized I'm like,

I just want to make videos. This is amazing. And, you know, it was one of those things where I could stay up till two in the morning editing and I just, didn't, it didn't feel like work. It was exciting. I was just learning how to use the equipment and, and eventually in 2004, I left the college and started my own video production business and had no idea what I was doing. Didn't, you know, hadn't started a business before, but

My wife and I were newly married and it was just like, Hey, let's try this thing. And I, we were just talking about this yesterday. I had to replace, you know, I was on salary at the, at the university and I had to replace my salary. That was the goal. She was still a student. So we were, you know, poor, young, you know, just all the things. My salary, what's that?

Christian Brim (04:23.634)
Nothing to lose. Nothing to lose.

Ryan (04:27.488)
Nothing to lose. So the salary that I had to replace was $22,000 a year, which is the equivalent of $11 an hour. And I thought, I just thought I'm like, I think I can do this. And looking back now, I'm like, I would have had to been completely terrible at

video to not replace my $11 an hour salary. yeah, so anyway, it's through friends and people at the church that we went to and the college I was getting contracted by, you know, just different people in our network. And then eventually a stranger hired me and gave me a check for $300 for a little video for his son, who was trying to make it to the Olympics. I was like, Oh my gosh, this is this is like a real thing. And then

I shot a wedding for $500 for my friend who was a photographer and that was amazing. And, uh, we kind of, say, we, I decided I was going to go all in on wedding films and I did that for about eight years hardcore and got to travel all over and meet amazing people and shot some weddings for as much as $25,000. And that was really cool. And then as we were having kids, I was like, man, I don't want to keep working on weekends. And I had this vision for our lives that didn't

me, really it didn't require me to work 40 hours a week in my business period. And so I realized that I could take what we learned in storytelling and video production into the world of business. And so we started working with businesses and telling their stories and that's what we do today. I mean it's been, we kind of rebranded in 2012 and now we're Tel Studios and have a team, we have a studio and still get to do some traveling and...

meet some cool people, but it's a lot different than our wedding days way back in the day.

Christian Brim (06:12.704)
So you've, if I'm not mistaken, you have kind of come full circle back to working with universities again, correct?

Ryan (06:24.716)
Yeah, yeah. So we made an announcement, I think it was two years ago. We built this whole brand around higher education. mean, we were approached, I think three or four years ago to create this documentary on this basketball coach at the university that I graduated from. And it was amazing because he was the guy who I knew his son. After I graduated high school, I knew him way a long time ago.

And anyway, this this basketball coach introduced me to he saw some potential in me or something. He introduced me to his boss, who is the president of the university. And I sat down with the president of the university. And I basically was like, I'd love to come to school here. This is like, you know, private school, small Christian, you know, I didn't grow up with any of this background, but I was so hungry to have this like new faith and whatever, but I I could not afford.

an education outside of the community college that I was paying for on my own and they paid, he made a way. I ended up getting the president's scholarship. went to school there for four years, lived on campus and you know, I left, graduated with no debt. And so when the school approached me like four years ago and said, hey, we've got a donor that wants to do a documentary on this basketball coach. Would you guys like to do it? I'm like, are you serious? Like this is the guy who saw something in me and made it.

Christian Brim (07:44.724)
Right.

Ryan (07:46.552)
possible for me to come to school here, of course. So did this documentary and through that process, I did a lot of reflecting and realized like, this is where my life was changed in this, in this space. And then my son, who was, I think a sophomore or junior at that point, I'm like, I want him to experience what even a taste of what I was able to experience in, in college, because we hadn't been pushing it on him at all. And, as I

Christian Brim (07:57.438)
Yeah.

Ryan (08:15.706)
finishing this documentary, was like, no, if we can help him extend his childhood and be in a place where, you know, he's got professors in a community of friends that he's learning and growing with, we really want him to have that opportunity. And then I said, let's, let's build a whole brand around this. And so we did that and it was one of the biggest mistakes I think I've made in the past few years. the brand is strong.

Christian Brim (08:37.469)
Okay, tell me more.

Ryan (08:39.616)
It's beautiful. I worked with a very generous and a talented guy, Scott Holman, a very amazing individual. We launched this brand. launched 20 episodes of a podcast to help just build that market what we were doing. But while we were doing that, like near the beginning of the launch, I was like, we were having cashflow issues and

Here I am. I'm like launching this new brand. I've got Tel Studios, our main production brand. And then I've got Studio Sherpas. This is my thought leadership brand. You know, I've got my podcast and mastermind and all of these, you know, digital courses and all this stuff. And here I am starting a whole other brand that was really very similar to Tel Studios, but had a new name, had a very, very specific focus for the niche that we were going after in higher ed. but I was just like, my gosh, like I've got to go back to the well. I've got to go back to the place where I know we can make money.

as I'm like, you know, trying to build network and relationships and land gigs with other higher ed institutions. It was, it was kind of this like, what are you doing? Like if you, and I read so many books and listen to podcasts and all of these, you know, different things, niching down is one of the best things that you can do. But the way that we niche down at the time that we niche down, it wasn't, it wasn't a good time because we weren't cash healthy, cash positive. We just were not.

Christian Brim (09:38.633)
Right?

Ryan (10:03.766)
in a good spot for me to spread myself so thin to be working in three brands. I mean, Christian, for me, I just realized, I'm like, who do I think I am that I can like, you know, just start a business and it's gonna be successful. So it was humbling. You know, if you go to our LinkedIn, it's still on LinkedIn, but I don't talk about it. I don't promote it. We don't push it. Cause, cause really I just said, I want to build my product, my main production.

business in a way that it could be sellable. And in order to do that, I've got to spend more time and energy building this thing out. I definitely see a space in a place for me in the world of higher ed, helping serving, creating video content and being hired by universities and stuff. I've really got to get my main business in a spot where I'm very comfortable. We have more predictability and all that. that's where I've been spending the last couple of years and a little humiliating to like

tell everybody, we're doing this thing. And then to kind of go back and be like, you know what, that one wasn't actually smart. So we're going to go back to what we know we can do.

Christian Brim (11:09.824)
Yeah, if you're not willing to be humiliated, entrepreneurship is not for you. But that's interesting. So have you done work with other universities since then?

Ryan (11:17.334)
Yes. Amen.

Ryan (11:23.532)
Yeah, yeah, we have and it's been great. I think a little bit has come from my intentionality of like reaching out into that space. I mean, most recently we're working with an association that works with colleges and we're doing, I did a workshop with them a couple of weeks ago. So we're still in that space, which I'm thankful that we have stepped into that space, but.

Christian Brim (11:32.831)
Right.

Ryan (11:50.562)
to think of managing the social media and all of the, know, continuing the podcast and that brand and then thinking about tell studios brand and the marketing that we need to do there. And then thinking about the studio Sherpas brand. I'm like, what? I'm not, I don't have a staff of 10 people I've got. I do have a staff, but you know, I've got, I've got to grow slow and I'm a quick start. That's like one of my superpowers and also one of my greatest weaknesses. but I just realized in launching that I'm like, okay, Ryan, like hit the pause button. Let's go back and let's.

Christian Brim (12:04.457)
Right.

Christian Brim (12:11.839)
Yes?

Ryan (12:19.854)
Let's really build this thing out to where it can run without you. And we were there, 2018, this business, that's when I launched Studio Sherpa's, or no, maybe it was 2016. But I was in a much better place where I had a team surrounding me and our whole team, you know, and the way that we do business is completely different since COVID and all that. So, yeah, definitely. I think humiliation is good.

Christian Brim (12:40.874)
So, so with, so was COVID the reason why, things changed that the business went from, you know, low touch to not too clunky.

Ryan (12:57.358)
Yeah, I think this year, I'm not one of those people that's like gonna like blame like, oh yeah, it's because of COVID, you know, now business isn't great. And maybe it's because I'm like eternal optimist or whatever, but I just don't, don't, if anything, I'm to blame to say like back in 2016, 17, 18, 19, that I wasn't making strides to build a better business that could run without me and to create predictability to create.

packages for corporations, for businesses that were just like, hey, package A, B and C. Like these are the things that we always do that we do super well. My team knows what these are. We've got processes in place. We know how to sell them. We know who wants to buy them. If I would have done that back in 2016 when I read the book Built to Sell by John Warlow, then we'd be in a much different place today. So since COVID, know, our team got smaller, we got more efficient.

And I learned a ton, but it's, it's, you know, our, our normal clients that had been at work, we worked with for years, uh, they weren't working with us. and so I think it was like, people have much greater access to be able to make their own videos now, you know, than pre, I don't want to say pre COVID, but as the years go by, the content, the equipment, the gear gets better, it gets cheaper.

gets more powerful. And now we've got AI. So there's a lot more ability and people are just more willing to show up with video. So but they don't want to pay, you know, $20,000, which is what we were used to charging clients for the longest time. And we didn't create affordable packages because I was kind of had an ego. And I'm like, well, we did $25,000 wedding film. So why am I going to do something that's less than $10,000? I said stuff like that. And I

I wouldn't create packages that were less than 10,000. But this morning, you know, I find myself, I'm at the local chamber of commerce coffee networking thing where if he asked me five years ago, I'd said, don't go to chamber commerce. that's, you're not going to get the kind of business. And for me to find people that would spend $20,000 at a chamber of commerce was typically, it was a waste of my time and energy. But now that we have packages that start at, I don't want to say $500, but we do have some stuff that would cost 500.

Ryan (15:14.798)
but 2,500 bucks all day long and your local real estate agent or insurance person can afford 2,500 bucks if he or she knows that it's going to provide some results for them. So we're in a much better spot today and I'm really gung ho to build out more predictability, which I know what that means and it's to create more price. I don't want to say aggressive because these are, you know, $2,500 package for us is a very profitable project for us at the same time. So,

That's how I'm spending my time these days.

Christian Brim (15:49.345)
Yeah, there's, wow, there's a lot to unpack there. I think, think...

Ryan (15:52.526)
you

Christian Brim (15:57.778)
I want to go back to where you started with you perceived, yourself spreading yourself too thin and, taking on too much. I think, I think entrepreneurs in general and creatives probably worse struggle with, that, that itch and

It's, it's a, it's an itch that does not go away. And I have seen over the course of my work as an entrepreneur, this ebb and flow where things, things are going smoothly. Cash is in the bank, not working a lot. And then you're like, okay, now what I'm, I'm bored.

And so you start looking at other things and you take your eye off the ball. You get distracted. You waste time, you waste money, you waste energy. And then your business suffers and then you're like pulled back into it. Right. I think we have to acknowledge as entrepreneurs that we have to have a problem to solve. Like that's, that's just who we are. And.

And if our current business isn't giving us that challenge, it's a dangerous place. just recently, I joined my first mastermind with Perry Marshall starting this year. And I was just in Chicago last week at my second roundtable meeting with about 20 entrepreneurs.

very different businesses, very different stages, experience levels. It was, it's a pretty interesting group. And I did my presentation on what I thought I wanted to do, which was, please don't laugh at me. I was like, okay, the business is,

Ryan (17:57.709)
Mm.

Ryan (18:14.478)
Too late.

Christian Brim (18:23.324)
you know, running smoothly and I've got all this time and I feel like if I, start tinkering in the business, I'm actually going to be counterproductive because I've hired these people to do their job. And if I start going in there and tinkering, it's, it's going to mess them up. And what I want to do is I want to, put together a bunch of accounting firms.

Ryan (18:35.374)
Right.

Christian Brim (18:50.816)
And roll them up. I don't want to buy them or run them, but I want to find the right ones put them together and by the way, I think I want to buy a marketing agency because Accountants are really awful marketers and that could give me deal flow to find the right accounting firms to do this roll-up and Bob Rignaris

Who's going to be at a speaker? One of our speakers at the creative revolution that we're going to have in October. He he he looked at me and he said I had this visceral reaction when you said agency because I actually drew it on on the board and he said I got physically ill. And I'm like, OK, OK, maybe.

Ryan (19:44.897)
Okay.

Christian Brim (19:47.581)
maybe this isn't the path that I should go on, right? And the funny thing was I'd been talking to my business coach about it and I really had been trying to rationalize why to do it. Like I'm like, this is not my passion. I really don't like other accountants. don't really want to deal with them. But I kept rationalizing why this was a good thing, right?

Ryan (20:02.156)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan (20:14.168)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (20:14.45)
And so when Bob said that I'm like, okay, clearly I'm, this is not what I need to be doing. And thank God that I had the humility to say, okay, this is not, this is not the path to go down. and so I came back and I started over, but, but I guess what I'm saying is your story resonates with me because it's, it's my life. And I think it's most of our listeners lives like.

Ryan (20:40.011)
Mm.

Christian Brim (20:43.742)
That's just who we are.

Ryan (20:48.123)
Yeah, when in 2016, when the seed was planted for this, the studio Sherpas education brand, my team at the same time said, Ryan, you have to stop booking projects. We're too busy. know, it's, we don't, it's crazy town. And all I'm thinking is like, I want to make more money. Like this is working, like whatever I'm doing. So I said, okay, I'll just start this other business over here. This is all me.

So anything I do over here, like, you you're gonna tell me to stop, like nobody's gonna tell me to stop. I'm just gonna keep, you know, doing this thing until I don't have the bandwidth and or come back to, you know, bounce back and forth between both businesses. And fortunately, like, I feel like it was the right timing for that education brand. Whereas like, you know, with enroll films are higher ed brands, like that was not the right timing for where I was at and what was required of me. But I saw.

Last year I saw Alex Hermosy on Instagram, you know, talk about a every person, every millionaire typically has seven different sources of income and he's got seven glasses and he starts taking pitcher of water and filling up all these glasses. And he's like, you know, you think that, you start this business and it's going okay. So then you're going to start another business and then that one will go okay. Then you started Airbnb thing and you make it some money from all these different things.

But if you didn't, and he's putting a little bit of water in all these things, he's like, most of the people that are millionaires have taken that first idea and he takes all this water until the cup is like overflowing, overflowing, overflowing. He's like, that's when it's time to start this next thing, because you've got systems processes, predictability, all the things in that one.

Christian Brim (22:25.492)
Yes. Yes.

Ryan (22:29.762)
figured it out, not just like you've, got lucky or you, you had some consistency, but no really rhyme or reason as to like how or why. And once that, you know, millionaire figured that out, then they moved to the next one and they did that same thing until that one started overflowing. And then they, you know, they find a new team or, know, have a new idea and then they do the next one. And that was a total game changer for me. It just made me think like, who am I to think I've got, you know, this business, this one over here, I'm going to start another one. And none of them are overflowing. Like they're

Christian Brim (22:58.1)
Right.

Ryan (22:58.286)
you know, providing a good income sometimes most of the time, you know, whatever, but it's still roller coasters, no predictability. And I'm like, what the heck am I doing? Uh, so, uh, that was a good, good wake up call for me. And, uh, to, to, to actually say, okay, I'm going to just hit pause on this thing. You know, I'm not ready to shut it down because the branding and all that stuff is so good. Uh, but just to get it out of sight, out of mind, uh, that's, what I had to do in order to, to really focus.

Christian Brim (23:26.642)
Yeah. And I think again, when it starts, you start talking about systematizing and processes, most entrepreneurs are like, I'm out. you know, managing people, that's another one that a lot of entrepreneurs just bulk at. They don't want to learn how to be a leader or how to be a coach. They don't want to work on their skills.

Ryan (23:39.736)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (23:56.061)
And, and, and they're like, so I don't want to manage people. And I guess, you know, the business, I think this is a very true axiom that the business is going to grow to your limit. You made the comment, earlier on, you know, I'm the problem. And, and I think that if you're not achieving what success

is for you in your business, that's the first answer is I'm the problem. Not the customers, the clients, the employees, the economy. It's me. There may be external factors that contribute to it, but most likely what it is is my reaction to it. So, I love the fact that

Ryan (24:28.852)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's good.

Christian Brim (24:54.13)
you had a model where you charged, you know, five figures and, you were successful with it, but you noticed that the market shifted. And so you came back and you didn't die on that Hill of saying, well, no, we're only going to do this type of work. You shifted and you said, okay, this is what the market needs now. And this is what the market will pay for. How can we make money on it?

And you could have had you not had the humility for lack of a better term, you could have died on that Hill. But, but you know, your business did not stall at that point because you had the self-awareness to say, no, we can pivot here. We can modify what we're doing and, and continue forward, but it starts with you.

Ryan (25:32.994)
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan (25:49.231)
Yeah. Yeah. I'm grateful. I'm in a mastermind. I pay for coaching and the people that are in the mastermind that I paid to be a member of, they want the best for me. And they're also not afraid to like tell me the truth. Just like your, your guy was like, yeah, that made me sick when you, right. And so, you know, as I talk about

Christian Brim (26:07.07)
Mm hmm. He said I want to vomit Christian. That's what he said. All right.

Ryan (26:13.838)
what I want for my life and my business and all this stuff to have people say like, well, like you might want to think about your business differently than if this, you if you want to do video production, if you want to have this agency, then maybe pursuing $20,000 projects in North of that, maybe that's not the best way for predictability. Maybe there's, maybe there's another way. And so as you know, I'm pitching, uh, you know, I pitched an $800 video last week.

which is hilarious because I'm like, are we thinking? You know, years ago. Right? Exactly. But back to my point, you know, I tell people all the time, like, why do you want to book a $100,000 job? Because when the six figure jobs that we've booked, most of the time, not all the time, but most of the time, those require, there's way more stress involved. There's way more moving parts. Lots more stuff can go wrong. Those projects last a lot longer.

Christian Brim (26:44.704)
You're gonna get back to that $300 you first got paid.

Christian Brim (27:04.448)
Mm-hmm.

Ryan (27:09.742)
our margin on a $10,000 job versus a $100,000 job is way higher. The percentage of money that we're keeping on a 10,000 in the stress level is way lower. Like we can totally jack up a $10,000 job. I can't afford to mess up a $100,000 job. I just, no mistakes can be made. And so when I got past that, so fortunately to have other people that could help me see what I wasn't seeing,

Christian Brim (27:19.989)
Yes.

Christian Brim (27:29.236)
Right.

Ryan (27:37.806)
because I wish I could take credit and just say, you know, I saw the writing on the wall. I'm seeing some writing on the wall, but to have people help me understand like, dude, like you should probably consider a different way to build this and to build predictability. And here we are. feel like now that people are finding out that, we have this $2,500 pack and we have a $5,000, like, right, let's, let's have a conversation like, oh, cool. And then in the meantime, you know, last week I booked a $19,000 job. So.

That stuff can come, but I don't want to rely on the $20,000 gigs to carry us through.

Christian Brim (28:10.92)
Yeah. And I think back when I, I, I actually bought a franchise when I started my business that yes, there were accounting franchises and in my, my training, the speaker that was, was telling us, said, you know, you want cookie cutter and, and he was talking about accounting, which, you know, we had a very specific thing that the franchise

said you did. And you didn't, you know, stray from that. And, you know, his comment was every time you try to stray from that, or add on to it, you're actually taking money out of your pocket. He said, you just want this. And, you know, that is a truth that still holds true. Like, you know,

The secret to success in business is having what you're calling predictable results. And if you keep trying to do a whole bunch of different things, it's real hard to make money at it. I think one of the things creative entrepreneurs struggle with a lot, especially in the videography space,

Ryan (29:26.316)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Christian Brim (29:40.117)
But even in the marketing space is that predictability of income because it's project work, right? And so a lot of times it's like, I did this one thing. Now I got to go get another. That's true. But if you've got a really good offering and a deep target market,

you just need to build a marketing process and system around it because it's it's out there you the predictability is there you just got to have the system in place where you're marketing and you got lead generation and you got sales calls and you know, I mean like that's what's it's not necessarily recurring revenue, but you've got a whole a whole bunch of sales options. Would you agree with that?

Ryan (30:33.186)
Yeah, 100%. Like the most predictable that our business ever has been was when we did wedding films and I wanted to pursue high end luxury weddings. And so I knew I need to talk to all the photographers. I need to hang out with all the high end photographers, all the high end wedding planners, all the high end venues. I knew that what our blog posts, this was back when blog posts were like, that was the thing. I knew what they needed to say and who they needed to appeal to. knew

Christian Brim (30:41.45)
Yes.

Ryan (31:02.508)
I just knew all of the things. So I knew exactly what we needed to do when it came to marketing. I could create something. We could create a trailer right after a wedding. I know that I would send it to the couple, send it to their family, the bridesmaids, groomsmen. And I just knew our views would skyrocket. It would get shared. And somebody from that party, somebody from that wedding would reach out within a week or two and say, hey, we saw what you did. We've got a wedding coming up or we're to pass your name along. That just, it always happened.

Then we transitioned in 2012, we start this corporate brand. I'm thinking I'm gonna do the same thing that we did for wedding people, couples. But then I was like, wait, shoot, what industry? Like, cause small business is not an industry, right? Medium sized businesses is not an industry. So it was just like, you know, just another humiliating moment of like realizing like, I don't, are we going after law firms? No, we're not going after law firms. We're going after law firms and eight real estate agents and manufacturing companies and.

robotics and marketing agents, know, just like anybody who's got a pulse that everybody needs video. And then it's like, okay, we'll create some marketing content around that or what networking events do you go to to meet these people? And then I would go to events, but I'm just like kind of meeting everybody and anything I'm saying is just like, hey, we eat, we do video. if you need video and that doesn't hit like it does when you're hanging out with high-end

you know, luxury photographers, wedding coordinators, and you say like, yeah, those are people like we just, you know, we just came back from St. Barts and just did this. wow. You went to say, did you do it? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. We're speaking the same language. It resonates. It makes sense. Step into, you know, corporate America and doing video for businesses. And I was just lost. And so I fell out of love with creating social content because I didn't know who I was talking to. And all of those years where if we would have picked a niche,

my gosh, like things, if we would have picked a niche and then we would have come up with a very clear offer, Hey, here's the video or the suite of videos that this niche needs. my gosh, dude. I mean, you and I would be on my private jet right now doing this podcast recording and the moral of the story would be a lot different than it is today.

Christian Brim (33:12.488)
Yes, yes. And I would echo that as well. I spent 20 plus years by defining my target market, really demographically of a certain business size. and I thought that I had a target market and like, resisted that,

Ryan (33:27.981)
Mm.

Christian Brim (33:41.313)
definition of a niche. And I think for most entrepreneurs, where that comes from is this fear that if I limit who I do business with, that somehow I'm going to limit my opportunities. When in reality, it's just the exact opposite. The more general you are, is you're limiting your options. Because, and the people that do...

end up buying from you because you have not specialized in your solution or your, or your market, um, are, are more likely than not going to see you as a commodity and it's going to suppress your price. So yeah, I think I, I, we defined a target market when I was 51. So after 30 years in business, so, know,

There are lessons to be learned. The quicker you learn them, the more successful and happier you'll be. Hopefully you'll listen to Ryan and my experience.

Ryan (34:51.496)
Sorry. So since defining your target market, would you say that are you seeing results that like are positive results and like, yeah, this actually is working? Surprise, surprise.

Christian Brim (35:04.134)
Yes, yes, it's not been as quick as I wanted, but that's because, know, like you were talking about with the wedding shoots, you had to build up a reputation and a network effect with all of those. I mean, think about it. mean, who's at weddings? People that are going to get married. I mean, they're

You know, there are other young people, right? And so, you know, it took us a while to figure out, where do we need to be? And what is the messaging that we're going to do? And then what are the solutions we're going to offer? Right? I mean, those are... And even there, like, so...

We have a bunch of people, I don't say a bunch of people, we have a lot of people that come to us and they say, well, we want you to work inside our QuickBooks or Xero or whatever accounting software they have. And that's a non-starter for us. Operationally, it's kind of like if someone shot a video and then brought it to you and said, can you make this pretty?

Right? Yeah, it takes more effort on our part to do it that way than for us to do it ourselves. So we've always just said no. but there's this like, why don't we develop a service offering where we do that? Like there's always that because there's a market demand for it, right? And telling people no and saying no

Ryan (36:35.49)
Right, right.

Ryan (36:54.318)
Right, right, right.

Christian Brim (36:59.668)
it is, is a critical skill to learn because it, soon as you start saying yes, outside of that, you know, narrow definition that you've, you've been successful at, you, you just start drifting off. It doesn't take very much, but that it's compelling. mean, it's, know,

Ryan (37:20.878)
Yeah.

Ryan (37:26.638)
Yes. I've been there. I think I'm there right now. I've, I've the coach that I've been working with on, on dialing in this new offer. He's like, okay, so we're going to dial in this offer and then you're going to sell it and you're going to keep selling it. You're not just, you know, you're not going to get like seven nos and then you're going to create something new. We're going to just like, cause this is, this will sell. I'm like, okay, okay. I'm like, we'll create this actually. Like I know a good add on it in another way that in another market we can be okay, bro. Like just stop.

Christian Brim (37:44.99)
Right, right.

Ryan (37:55.284)
I know I'm like, yeah, okay, this is my greatest strength and my greatest weakness.

Christian Brim (37:55.776)
Yes.

Christian Brim (37:59.71)
Yes, yes, yes. And I think that is also a great lesson to learn is that your strengths can be weaknesses. And for me, one of my characteristics is stubbornness or persistence, depending upon the context, right?

Ryan (38:12.77)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (38:29.12)
You know, those things that, that help us be successful initially in business, oftentimes end up being problems later on and being able to say, okay, well, this, this characteristic served me well, to get to here, but I'm going to have to set it aside in order to move forward. That's challenge.

And I've often said...

The last eight years of the business, since I peaked, I lost all my passion, I left the business for a couple of years, and then got drawn back into it and said, I'm gonna change the business fundamentally because I can't keep doing it the way I was doing it. The last eight years and all of the self work that I had to do,

Ryan (39:25.08)
Yes.

Christian Brim (39:31.753)
And all of the changes that I had to implement in, in people and in the business was harder than the startup. It was harder. And, and, you know, I understand where people reach a certain level of success in their business. And they're like, you know, I'm good. I'm not, I don't need to go any further. because it's, it's work. It's not, I mean, some things are easier.

Ryan (39:40.974)
Mm. Yeah.

Ryan (39:52.929)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (39:59.008)
based upon your experience and, know, hopefully you've, you've, you've built up some cash reserve to, but, but, you know, it's still work. And I think that to your point and your situation with the technology changes, I don't think standing Pat is going to be much of an option for people anymore. Like, I don't, I don't, I think the days of getting to

a certain level of financial success, an operational success in the business, and you just coast. I don't think that's reality anymore.

Ryan (40:36.302)
Yeah, yeah, at least not in my world. And so I'm not getting ready to just hang out and ride the success of it's really, mean, with AI, anybody that's in the creative space at all, there's a lot more to this than just providing pixels or whatever. We've got to be helping our clients think differently and guiding them.

So being being ready to pivot it's like I think it's currently the name of the game

Christian Brim (41:13.128)
Yeah. And I think about all of these technological changes and tools and, there's a lot to discuss on that, but I think the prevailing thing to me is that it makes everybody gets shiny object syndrome with new technology. Right. And so I'm sitting there saying, well, I don't need to hire a videographer because I can make my own content.

Okay. the, the example I use is 25 years ago, QuickBooks came on the scene and can, and, built an entire multi-billion dollar business on the idea that you don't need an accountant. need QuickBooks. and right. And, and, and, and in reality, I mean, I'm not saying that everybody that's just using QuickBooks by themselves is, is like,

pissing money away. but they're only using a fraction of what they could be doing with the software and what they are doing. They're probably not doing it correctly there. In other words, QuickBooks didn't make them a better, it didn't make them an accountant. didn't make them a bookkeeper, but, they think so. and the same thing I think is with, with, with AI and all of the, know, okay, now I'm a writer because chat GPT can, no, you're not.

Ryan (42:24.36)
Right, yeah.

Right.

Ryan (42:37.356)
Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Christian Brim (42:41.76)
You know, it's maddening.

Ryan (42:47.95)
And chat.jpt says like, no, this is great. Great job, Ryan. This sounds amazing. It's like, wait, is it really amazing? Like, because, I mean, OK, cool. Yeah, it sounds good. It feels good. I mean, you said so, chat.jpt. So I'm going to publish this.

Christian Brim (43:01.886)
Yeah, I have been wrestling with large language models for two years since they came out and just trying to figure out how like what is this tool? Like how can I use it? Right. And another guy in my mastermind who this is all he does. He described it as, you know,

think of it as an external hard drive that has all the information ever humanity ever curated. And it gives you additional processing speed. So, so if you think about your brain as a computer, it really, it really is just more horsepower for you, right? But it doesn't think.

It does not have the creative impetus. It does not know what to do. You still have to direct it. And that was like, that is an understanding that I can work with. Because I kept trying to figure out use cases, like, okay, well, how do I solve this problem with AI or an LLM? And that's just the opposite way to go about it.

Ryan (44:19.726)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (44:30.3)
is you have the answer, right? How can you use the tool to make you more efficient?

Ryan (44:32.386)
Yeah, yeah.

Right. 100%. That's good.

Christian Brim (44:42.484)
Awkward pause, awkward pause. Is that plant alive?

Ryan (44:42.656)
Agree.

Man, I hope not. Is it moving? Because if it is, then I should probably get up and run out of here.

Christian Brim (44:50.73)
No.

No, but it is not a living plant. It is a plastic plant.

Ryan (44:57.87)
As far as I know, yes, it is a plastic plant. I'm in a very closed little home studio currently, no windows.

Christian Brim (45:09.204)
so it wouldn't survive.

Ryan (45:10.808)
Yeah, probably not.

Christian Brim (45:13.45)
Tell me a little bit about Studio Sherpas, what you do there.

Ryan (45:19.022)
I currently am focused on helping filmmakers, video production business owners build more profitable businesses with more predictability. And again, it's like, wait, Ryan, just were talking about, you know, you're trying to build a predictability in your own business. Yes. But remember how like the, the cobbler doesn't have time to make shoes for his kids because he's so busy working with clients.

Christian Brim (45:44.564)
Yes.

Ryan (45:46.36)
So I know all the things, I know what I'm supposed to be doing, so it's way easier and way more effective for me to tell other people what gaps they have in their businesses. But you know, I do take my own medicine, I think that's how you say that, specifically like, you know, all of that stuff. I mean, I've hired a business coach, I'm in a mastermind so that I can have accountability in taking my own medicine, right? As the CEO,

Christian Brim (45:53.503)
Yes?

Christian Brim (46:02.514)
Eat your own cooking, whatever.

Ryan (46:16.494)
I don't have anybody else that's on equal ground as me in my business. so to have somebody in 2017, 2018, 2019, I did, I had an operations, chief of operations person.

Christian Brim (46:20.192)
Correct.

Ryan (46:31.252)
and I was accountable to that person, even though at the end of the day, I was still the boss and could fire that person if I wanted to. But I just knew that as I wanted the business to grow, I needed to have that accountability and I needed to be focused on our quarterly and our yearly goals. And now, currently I don't have that role in my business. So I'm like, I've got to do something. You know what is more affordable than hiring a chief of operations person? Let me hire a coach. It's not cheap, but it's also way less expensive than a COO. And hey, here's my goals. This is where I want to get.

Christian Brim (46:53.855)
Mmm.

Ryan (47:00.558)
So let's create a path to get there. And so I'm doing this stuff and I'm more excited about the direction that the production business is headed than I have been in a long time. Uh, and it's, it, it, is a very exciting time for us. So anyway, the, the work inside of studio Sherpas is essentially me taking all of the things that I'm learning, the, failures that I've made in my own production business, the successes, you know, we've hit a million dollars multiple times in yearly annual revenue.

Christian Brim (47:21.651)
Mm-hmm.

Ryan (47:29.882)
And I make a good living in our production business. And so for me to take those things that have worked and to tell other people, teach other, show people, hey, here's what I've done. Here's what I'm doing. Here's what I stopped doing. Here's what I'm starting up again. It's just been a fun outlet for me. And it's also like in some terms, some ways I'm learning alongside of the people that I'm teaching. So my podcast, The Grow Your Video Business Show, which you've been on, you've been to my events, that

Christian Brim (47:47.167)
Mm-hmm.

Ryan (47:59.692)
work is super fun and fulfilling because it's not just an opportunity for me to get experts to come on and talk about different ways that we can grow our business, but I'm sitting there taking notes. like, this is really so selfishly since I have my own production business, I'm able to take those things and apply those to my business and, and then help other people that are in a similar position for them to be able to, to grow to. And the most fulfilling part of that work is when people

Christian Brim (48:11.359)
Yeah.

Ryan (48:27.862)
message me and say, I booked my first, you know, $10,000. I booked a $60,000 job. our mastermind just booked a 60,000 couple in our mastermind just booked, or they pitched, I don't know if they've, they've closed it or not, but a $300,000 deal with a client that they, they were ready to throw the towel in their business. And it's amazing to see, sticking to it and listening to advice and encouragement from the mastermind has led them to.

So that work is so fun and fulfilling, way different than the fulfillment of delivering a video to a client. That can be fun and that can be fulfilling, but to actually work with people and to help them create predictability, have financial successes, that's been pretty cool.

Christian Brim (49:03.903)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (49:18.868)
Yeah. I think that having somebody outside of yourself, a therapist, prefer a coach, a peer group of some sort, a mastermind, you have to get outside of your own head. And it's not just the business health, it's your own mental health. Because I think...

Ryan (49:35.032)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (49:47.677)
Entrepreneurship can be very lonely. it can be very isolating. and it can feel like a, a, a terribly dark place sometimes. And, having those groups, those resources where you can get out of your own head is critical. I mean, like I said, even, even if you're just starting up and, and you don't have the money to pay for a coach or can't join a mastermind.

you know, finding some like minded entrepreneurs, they don't have to be in your industry. you know, but, but somebody that is, can walk that journey with you and you can share experiences and, and share struggles, and even wins. Cause a lot of times it's, hard to share your successes with non-entrepreneurs cause they're, look at you funny. yeah, I think it's critical.

Ryan (50:37.836)
Right, Yeah.

Ryan (50:44.802)
Yes, it's been, mean, the mastermind that I pay to be a part of it's you got all sorts of entrepreneurs from all different kinds of industries, a lot of authors, some coaches, agency owners, and to be able to get different perspectives. Super duper helpful. And then even in the, you know, the mastermind that I lead that's currently all filmmakers, some might think like, well, aren't you, you know, you're all competition, you're all doing the same thing.

Like even in there, everybody's taking notes and everybody has like their own experience or insight. And there's things about that. It's like, it's really nice that we're all in the same industry. So fortunately for me, I'm, I've got my feet in a couple of different spots, one where it's all sorts of different kinds of businesses. And then another one where it's all the same kind of businesses. So I get the benefit and see the advantages of both of them. But I think to your point, get out of your own head. Don't just rely on something like

Christian Brim (51:14.75)
Yes.

Christian Brim (51:22.271)
Yes.

Ryan (51:40.11)
a conversation with chat GBT that will tell you exactly what you want to hear, but in a much more eloquent way, but find, uh, find people that want success for you and surround yourself. You know, community is so crucial for, mean, really for living a more fulfilled life, sharing, uh, struggles, frustrations, wins, all of that stuff, but finding other people, uh, that

Christian Brim (51:54.592)
Mm.

Ryan (52:09.186)
that really want the best for you and that are gonna speak truth and help you and figure out or just be a listening ear. That kind of therapy is something that we all need and to take the time out and sometimes to invest money helps us to show up and helps us to actually do the work.

Christian Brim (52:11.328)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (52:30.24)
100 %

a hundred percent, if you don't pay for it, you don't value it. And you know, that that's one of the things that I learned as a coach is that you pay money to your coach, not for them, but for you. Cause if you, if you don't pay the money, your attitude about it is, is not the right attitude. Absolutely. We all need the Bob Regnerus in our world that will say you, what you just said makes me want to vomit. so.

Ryan (52:46.423)
Yeah, yeah.

Ryan (52:52.482)
Yep.

Yeah.

Christian Brim (53:05.524)
How do people find more about Tel Studios and Studio Sherpas?

Ryan (53:10.766)
Well, we try to make it really easy. Tellstudios.com, studiosherpas.com, those two places. I'm on LinkedIn. That's where I post the most. Post the most? Ooh, there's a, so my last name is Coral, K-O-R-A-L, so it's not spelled like the other kind of coral, but sounds like the coral. So Ryan Coral on LinkedIn. I do some more personal stuff on Instagram and whatnot. And then I do have, you know, I've got the Grow Your Video Business show. If you're a filmmaker,

Christian Brim (53:16.372)
Yes.

Christian Brim (53:22.045)
Yes.

Christian Brim (53:28.777)
Yes.

Ryan (53:40.844)
that you should at least listen to a couple of episodes that the guests that I have are amazing. Sometimes I actually say some things that might allude to almost being amazing. But yeah, just that's a great place for filmmakers. And if you're curious about video production or anything, we've got a lot of stuff on our Tell Studios site. we...

Christian Brim (53:43.004)
Absolutely check it out.

Ryan (54:06.712)
We're continuing where I'm launching a cohort here very soon for business owners that know that they should be showing up on video that have 8 million excuses as to why they're not. And I'm trying to get help those business owners who believe in their mission to show up and to share my success and just being top of mind on LinkedIn and having people say, I mean, I ran into a guy on a cruise a few weeks ago over spring break. He's like, Ryan,

Christian Brim (54:13.952)
Mmm.

Ryan (54:36.622)
And I like, stop. I'm like, what? This is like the last night of this cruise. it's this guy who's like, he sort of looks familiar. He's like, hey, he's like, I got your email this morning. I was like, email? I'm like, oh. He's like, yeah, I'm on your list. And I had an email pre-programmed to go out while we were on this thing. He's like, man, your content's great. And so my point is, you don't have to be anything special. It doesn't matter. You definitely have competition that's showing up. And that's probably going to have stuff that's better than you. But what's most important is showing up.

Christian Brim (54:48.906)
Right.

Ryan (55:06.126)
in creating consistency and the beautiful thing about video is it can live 24 seven. So even if you fumbled over your words or you don't love what you look like, I always tell people that your mission is more important than your mug. And in showing up on video, you can really create, begin to create connection with your ideal audience. And people tend to be very forgiving. We're not forgiving of ourselves, but when people see you showing up on video,

Christian Brim (55:06.261)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (55:18.633)
Ooh.

Ryan (55:33.858)
they think to themselves like, wow, I don't have the courage to do that. The fact that she or he is doing that, that's pretty cool. And you're just one step closer to, to, connecting with them or connecting with them on a deeper level. So anyway, I'm launching that cohort pretty soon. so you can follow me on LinkedIn and get more details on that stuff. But, yeah, lots of exciting stuff going on. So find me anywhere. I know. And I live in Michigan. You can come hang out.

Christian Brim (55:56.028)
I love it. And it's beautiful up there. have been and it's, you know, yes, yes. I don't know so much in January, but yes, this is a good time. Listeners will have those links in the show notes. If you like what you've heard, please subscribe to the podcast, share the podcast, rate the podcast. If you don't like what you've heard, shoot us a message and tell us what you want to hear and we'll replace Ryan. Until then, ta ta for now.

Ryan (56:01.078)
It is especially now.

Ryan (56:06.765)
Yeah.

Ryan (56:22.382)
Yes!

That's funny.