The Path to Premium Coaching Success | Ann Carden

PROFITABLE TALKS...

In this episode of the Profitable Creative, host Christian Brim interviews Ann Carden, a successful consultant and coach, who shares her journey from corporate business to helping others achieve success in their own ventures. Ann discusses the importance of finding one's true expertise, the challenges of working with the right clients, and the value of premium coaching. She emphasizes the need for a sustainable business model and the significance of investing in oneself to achieve long-term success.

PROFITABLE TAKEAWAYS...

• Ann transitioned from corporate to consulting after 13 years.
• She faced frustration with cookie-cutter coaching models.
• Finding true expertise is crucial for success.
• Low-ticket offers can dilute the value of coaching.
• Client readiness is essential for effective coaching.
• Investing in premium coaching leads to better results.
• Many coaches lack real business experience.
• Sustainable business models are key to longevity.
• True experts are in high demand in the market.
• Coaching should align with individual strengths and goals.

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Transcript

Christian Brim (00:01.474)
Welcome to another episode of the Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Special shout out to our one listener in Pell City, Alabama. That sounds like the size of town that would have one listener. Welcome to the show, Anne Carden of Expert in You. Anne, welcome to the show.

Ann Carden (00:25.348)
Thanks, thanks Christian. It's great to be here with you.

Christian Brim (00:29.326)
So why don't we start, I like to call it the origin story. Where did Expert in You come from?

Ann Carden (00:38.906)
Great question. So after leaving corporate for 13 years in business management, building five successful businesses and selling them, I decided to step into consulting and coaching people in their business to help them have faster success. And I went down a lot of the wrong paths. And out of that, I almost quit my business at one point because I was going down the funnel paths and I was going down the course creator and I

bought into a business coaching franchise and I, that had all the bells and whistles and systems. And after frustration, I kept hitting an income ceiling and I wasn't working with the clients that really could experience the expertise that I had and the skills that I had. And I found myself really unfulfilled in the business, not enjoying it. And I said, this isn't what I wanted to do. This isn't what I signed up for.

I'm either going to figure this out or I'm going to get out. Now I'm not a quitter. I built a lot of businesses, right? So you have to know I was extremely frustrated with the industry and what I was seeing out there and just all the things that was being taught, especially when I came online, but even offline, I was still taught very low value strategies to build my coaching and consulting business and just things that just, again, didn't align with what I felt like I could bring.

to people to really help them speed their success. So I took a step back, I said, what's wrong here? And I figured out that I wasn't really building around my true expertise. I was trying to build from other people's cookie cutter systems and models and ideas and strategies, but it wasn't really my brilliance and my expertise. And that's where my method came from.

Christian Brim (02:22.019)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (02:35.374)
Yeah, I think it's interesting because I started with a franchise, but I was 27 and I didn't know anything. So it's probably good that I started with a franchise. It was good that I started with a franchise until the French bought my franchise or, and then that was awful, but that's a different story. I think though that what you're talking about is something that I see out there where there's just this proliferation of

Ann Carden (02:51.758)
don't know.

Christian Brim (03:05.046)
experts, systems, solutions that are mass marketed. and you know, a franchise is a great example. So, you know, if you don't know anything, about an industry, a franchise is a good thing because it gives you the structure that you need to have success.

Ann Carden (03:29.999)
Sure.

Christian Brim (03:35.151)
that you don't have to learn it on your own and make mistakes and potentially fail before you get through those things. Like these are learnable lessons, right? But like with my situation, you get to the point where the franchise or, and you want to go different directions, right? Like, and that's where it doesn't work. And I...

Ann Carden (03:37.871)
Mm-hmm.

Ann Carden (03:55.406)
This is it.

Christian Brim (04:02.828)
I think there's a lot of people out there that are looking for quick fixes. Like they want somebody to open their brains and pour in this knowledge. And then it's just going to be all rainbows and butterflies. but that's, that's not the case. And, and I don't know if it's just because the technology allows it, like it's relatively low barrier to entry to go in and create courses. And, and, and so there's just a whole plethora of them out

Ann Carden (04:23.738)
It is. Yes, it is. Yes. No, that's absolutely true. the interesting thing is when I was in the, it was really more of a licensing program with the coaching, but it was, it was still somewhat a franchise. But the interesting thing is most of the business coaches that they are the people that they were trying to turn out to be business coaches.

a lot of them had never even owned a business. So that was a huge red flag to me. And I thought, gosh, you're dealing with people's livelihoods here. And if you go in and try to help a business owner and you've never even run your own successful business or owned a business or signed in front of a paycheck, that to me, that's really messing with someone's livelihood. And so it really bothered me a lot. when I, the other piece of that is,

Now I had to learn all of their stuff, which really wasn't even in my area of expertise. It was not that I didn't learn anything from it. I'm not saying that, but it was almost like going back to school, Christian, to learn someone else's system. And I had the experience and the knowledge that I needed to be able to really help people at a high level. But it was keeping me very small because now I had to learn all this and it was a very slow path.

Christian Brim (05:22.883)
Mm.

Christian Brim (05:41.582)
Mm.

Ann Carden (05:44.898)
It was a very cookie cutter system. And on top of that, it wasn't even in my wheelhouse the way. So I didn't even have the confidence, even though I had 40 years of business experience, I didn't even have the confidence to show up the way I needed to because it wasn't in my expertise. And when I finally said, I'm either going to figure this out or I'm getting out. And I took a step back. thought, and you know how to build businesses.

the heck is going on here? What's going on in this consulting and coaching business that you're not doing that you know? And that's when I just shut everything out and I said, build around what you already are so great at doing. And when I did that and also build premium, that was the other thing. Stop the low ticket stuff. Stop the low value stuff. Bring in the clients that you can help make millions or add millions.

bring those people in, the people you can help be more profitable and scale faster. Those are your people and those are the people that will pay for that expertise. And it was through that process that my whole method was born. And the interesting thing is then I got, once I kind of cracked the code and I really figured all of that out, I had a lot of...

coaches from that organization that were coming to me. Well, how did you do it? How, because my business literally exploded overnight. it felt like overnight. And they were like, how did you do it? And I would say, well, what was your expertise? And it would be some off the wall. I was a music teacher. Really? And you're trying to help people build businesses. So that's the problem. Why don't we build something around your expertise in music or your expertise in whatever. And so that's how that was all born.

Christian Brim (07:14.562)
Right.

Christian Brim (07:36.427)
Yeah. And I think that's a, that's a common thing I see out there with people pitching courses and consulting is the low ticket offer, right? To get, to to get people in there and upsell them. But I think you would agree with this that if you're targeting a premium customer, not only is that wasting your time, it's actually pushing your target market away. I would assume.

Ann Carden (07:46.28)
Mm-hmm.

Ann Carden (07:59.61)
Mm-hmm.

repelling them completely. Yes, 100%. Yes.

Christian Brim (08:07.564)
Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Ann Carden (08:10.83)
So I found that out the hard way after I went down a lot, invested a lot of money, more than I'm, I mean, I'm embarrassed to say how much money I invested in different things, thinking somebody knew something I didn't. And what I found is there were a lot of so-called experts out there teaching something, but they didn't have enough depth and experience and knowledge to even be able to tell me that this isn't the right path for you.

because they had just learned to do something and maybe they were successful at that one thing. I'll give you an example. When I decided to come online and I wanted to target a specific market, which at that time was contractors, contractors that were in real businesses, like real business owners. And I was convinced through a program that I paid a lot of money to invest in. Well, you can reach them through Facebook.

Christian Brim (08:55.982)
Mm-hmm.

Ann Carden (09:05.4)
But what I found as I invested in their program and everything that I did, I got them through Facebook, but they were startups. were all very, they were all beginners. They were all startups. The real business owners, the people that I really wanted, wasn't, no, I wasn't reaching them through Facebook, right? Their employees were on Facebook. Their manager, their office manager was on Facebook running their page or they had a marketing company running their page, but they were not on Facebook. And so,

Christian Brim (09:14.21)
right.

Christian Brim (09:19.458)
They're not on Facebook.

Ann Carden (09:34.49)
If they would have had the insight to really understand, like if they would have had the deep experience to understand really what I wanted to bring to the table, they could have told me, this isn't the right thing for you. This isn't going to work. But instead it was a salesperson. And of course this is the right thing for you only to find out it wasn't. Now, Christian, I get value from everything. So I never ever look at anything as a waste.

But could I have done it so much more affordable? Of course, right? If I would have been able to find the right person that could have really looked at my skills, my business, my knowledge, my expertise, and showed me how to play at a premium level from the very beginning. So that's what I do with people.

Christian Brim (10:19.5)
Yeah. A lot of these experts out there, and I don't even have names to name. So it's not like I'm naming people, but it, it, it, it almost feels a little Amway ish. Like, I, I'm going to be successful because I've talked you into believing I'm successful. Right. And the underpinning it, the, the, the, knowledge, the expertise, the depth is very thin.

Ann Carden (10:49.282)
Yes. Yes.

Christian Brim (10:49.51)
right. one of the, my, my business coach, actually has transitioned over the three years he's working, worked with me where he's gotten rid of most of his individual. and he now coaches coaches to ha on the business side, like, so how, how to do what you're talking about.

And, and, and having that conversation with them, most of the time it's, it's like, yeah, these people think they need something more than they already have in order to be a coach. And they don't have confidence in themselves and their expertise, their experience. and, so they're, they're, they're hung up on that. when, when in reality, they, they, they just need some skills around marketing and selling.

Ann Carden (11:28.826)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (11:49.646)
But they don't need anything other than that. They have the expertise.

Ann Carden (11:54.042)
That's right. have the business acumen and the knowledge and the experience that they need, but because very much like I did, they go down the wrong path, they end up with the wrong clients, they end up... It actually... I work with so many business coaches and consultants, so many, and their confidence gets shaken. And their confidence gets shaken not because they're not amazing at what they do, they're not working with the right people.

They're not working with people that really can utilize their expertise and their experience and value what they bring to the market. Again, because they've gone down the wrong paths. And look, when you're working with the wrong people all day long, it's not going to work well, right? And so they end up feeling like they're not good at what they do. And this was me as well. I thought, how can I want these people's success more than they did? Like, what am I doing wrong that I can't...

Christian Brim (12:36.888)
Mm-hmm.

Ann Carden (12:50.542)
convince them that they need to be doing these things. And what I realized is they weren't ready. They were not in the place psychologically or ready for what I could bring.

Christian Brim (12:59.296)
Right. Yes. Yes. I mean, I use my example is I, I never had a business coach. I didn't even hire Jacob on purpose. He came with another consultant, a marketing consultant that I hired and he was an, he was a bolt on. and after that engagement with the marketing consultant was over, I, I didn't really get what I wanted, but I kept Jacob. and

I had been told by peers I had respected that, you know, you need a business coach. I'm like, yeah, don't need a business coach because in my mind, I didn't need to know anything about business. Like I, I, I, at this point, I was in the game for 20 years and I'm like, what are you going to teach me about business that I don't already know? Right. but the reality is,

Ann Carden (13:47.032)
Thank

Christian Brim (13:59.245)
that my business coach, he used to be an orthodox rabbi. He's still orthodox, but he's no longer a rabbi because he was tired of being broke. you know, yes, he has business experience, but that's not what he brings to the table with me with coaching. He is coaching me around my blind spots where

Ann Carden (14:25.754)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (14:28.018)
I'm stuck processing, you know, feelings or, or making decisions like, why am I not making decisions or why, you know, why are you so hung up on this? And it was fascinating. He was asking me a question and it was, it was a profound question because I took like 60 seconds to answer. And then I started answering it and I had this epiphany. I don't remember what the epiphany was, but it seemed profound at the time.

And I just kept, you know, vomiting. And, he told me several months afterwards, he goes, you know, when you had that epiphany, said, my phone was on mute. And when you were quiet for 60 seconds, you were at that long pause. I was asking questions, but you couldn't hear me.

Ann Carden (15:19.352)
Mmm.

Christian Brim (15:20.966)
And that's, I think that's the power of coaching to me is helping you come to the realization and the answer yourself, what you already have inside of you. It's not Christian Brim coming to you and saying, well, this is how you need to do this. I've got the recipe for your, your problem to fix it.

Ann Carden (15:27.044)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (15:48.011)
It's understanding what you already know and why you aren't doing it. Like that's, that's the power of, of, of a great coach to me. because you have to come to that place yourself. You know, your, your places that you get stuck, someone can point them out. Like someone said to me, you need a business coach. I wasn't ready for it. Right. And, and, and until you're ready for it, doesn't matter what anybody else says.

Ann Carden (16:10.458)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Ann Carden (16:16.258)
Right. Can I speak to that for just a second? Yeah. So I do believe that there are two types of coaching and I tend to do both with my clients because I have been doing this for so long. But there is a coach like that where they will see your blind spots and maybe you have all the business acumen and you don't really need that. However, business is moving fast.

Christian Brim (16:18.616)
Please.

Ann Carden (16:39.524)
There are always new things coming up. There's always new marketing. I am still learning every single day something new. And when I came into the online space, that was a whole different world for me. And even the coaching and consulting space was a whole different world for me from the businesses I had built before. So I needed to know how to build that type of a business. And so to your point, there are some things, yes, you've got it inside of you, but there are other things.

I believe a lot of people in business, don't know what they don't know and that's why they get stuck too. And so you need really to me somebody that can really do both of those things because you need the strategy and you need the mindset and all the other things that go along with it to make sure you're productive and you're doing what you need to be doing.

Christian Brim (17:12.558)
Sure.

Ann Carden (17:35.01)
Yeah, some people may need more than they need the other. They may have the strategy and don't have the mindset, but you do need both, I believe.

Christian Brim (17:38.456)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (17:43.855)
Well, no, I think you're right. I I equate that to coaching skill, right? Like if all of us were in primary school or high school and we had athletic coaches and what were they doing? They were teaching us the skills in the game, right? We didn't know that. And there absolutely is a place for that in coaching because the amount of

Ann Carden (17:49.486)
Mm-hmm.

Ann Carden (18:00.676)
Sure.

Christian Brim (18:13.344)
information that you have to know as a business owner is overwhelming at times, right? And to your point, you don't know what you don't know. But I want to go back to this idea that someone's not ready. So when you talk to prospects, how do you know if they're ready for coaching?

Ann Carden (18:19.032)
Yes, yeah.

Ann Carden (18:36.472)
just have a series of questions that I ask and now I've been doing it for almost 15 years. So I have a pretty clear idea of whether or not they're going to be ready. one of the things, everyone looks for something different because of the level of clients that I work with and because of only taking so many clients. I don't have a volume business. I have a high end business.

Because of that, I vet my clients and I'm very particular about the people that I do work with. And so it's really easy to see for me if they're ready.

Christian Brim (19:14.392)
So you're saying it's a determination you make, not they make.

Ann Carden (19:17.528)
Yes, it's a determination I make, but typically through my marketing and everything that I'm doing, if they come to me, they have already checked me out. They already know what I'm all about. I'm very clear about the fact that I don't work with everyone and I don't take everyone. And I'm very clear about the fact that if I do not 100 % believe I can help you, I will not take you on as a client. So, but that's my business model. People that are out there doing volume.

They don't really, that's not their model. They don't really care. They're selling their system, take it or leave it. If you have results, that's fine. If you don't, I don't really care because this is the system. I'm selling you the system. I'm not promising you results. And I have a very different model from that.

Christian Brim (20:02.936)
Do you ever run into a case, well, I mean, I'm sure in 15 years you have, where someone gets on boarded, sold and on boarded, and then you make the determination like, no, this isn't going to work out. Like you are not in fact ready.

Ann Carden (20:17.198)
Yes, yes, I have. More so at the beginning stages when I still was trying to understand who does make a good client for me, who doesn't make a good client. And so, I mean, my success rate is very, very high as long as they do the work and they do what they need to do. And so if I get the impression that they're not going, like they're just not doing it or they're not taking the actions,

Christian Brim (20:22.861)
Right.

Ann Carden (20:47.092)
I do not keep taking their money. It's not a good play for me. It's not a good play for them. I care about the results. So if I want to keep my reputation, I feel like it's just best we part ways. That being said, I usually do not have a problem. Even if people move at a little slower pace, I'm still very clear with them.

you're moving at a slower pace, are you good with that? You know, because I'm here to get you results. I'm here to help you get results. So I'm very open with them. And there's always a really great dialogue between us that if they make the decision to move slower, they're okay with that. I'm okay with that because they're still learning. They're still doing, they're still implementing. But yes, I've had people that I've had to say, this just isn't going to work out. But it was more so in the beginning.

Christian Brim (21:35.832)
So I'm going to ask you a question. You don't have to answer it. Hell, this may be public, and I just didn't do my research. Ballpark, what does someone pay to work with you?

Ann Carden (21:49.274)
Yeah, so my prices run typically between 25,000 to 100,000 to work with me.

Christian Brim (21:54.721)
Okay. And you're telling me that someone would, I'll pick a number, spend 50 grand and not do their shit. Like

Ann Carden (22:07.002)
No, no, they don't. That's the whole thing. When I switched to the premium model, I really didn't have that anymore. It was when I was working at the lower value model. I'll give you an example. When I first started coaching and consulting, know, an average client was maybe $1,500 a month or maybe $2,000 a month. But even at that, they were only paying

monthly. they were paying and even even if I did a one year agreement with them, they were still paying monthly. So they weren't really feeling you know, the the impact of that right. So they could kind of go along. Now I do my business very differently and people pay differently and that they pay a lot more upfront or they pay in full and that that commitment brings in higher level clients like I just invested.

Christian Brim (22:56.622)
Sure.

Ann Carden (22:59.226)
25k or I just invested 50k into this and they are going to do it. So, but even if I was to charge them monthly, they're still going to pay a lot more monthly. And so that again, the impact is going to be there because they're going to feel it, but they're only going to feel it obviously for a very short time. But the other piece of that is I help them get really high end clients. So a lot of my clients,

are getting 50,000 six-figure clients, multiple six-figure clients. So all they need typically is one client and they make their money back. And that's what they're buying into. They're buying into that kind of success.

Christian Brim (23:38.263)
Yeah, and I'm thinking about an entrepreneur who will be unnamed, new in the business, who was commenting on social media about not being paid on an outstanding invoice. that client had, it was no longer a client, right? Okay.

Ann Carden (24:06.094)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (24:08.59)
And my comment to them was...

yeah, if you're going to work with me, you pay upfront or you don't work with me. And. You know, I've been doing it so long. I'm trying to think about the mindset I had before that. but you know, there, there are a lot of people that are going to hear me and hear you say that you got to write a check for 25 grand upfront. they're like, well, who the hell is going to do that? Right? Like it's beyond.

Ann Carden (24:27.556)
Mm-hmm.

Ann Carden (24:40.57)
I mean, I have funding options. They can get funding, but they're still committed to that funding through a third party funding company.

Christian Brim (24:48.524)
Right. But how do you address that mindset issue? Like that there aren't people that will do that. Like that's just not even in the realm of imagination.

Ann Carden (25:00.986)
Well, they're not my people. And so I think, again, you have to get really clear. The people that I bring on, they are all in on their success. And that's the way they look at it. Like I am all in on my success. If I want what Ann can help me do, if I want to get that, you know, I had a client, we got her a $413,000 client, one client, right? 35 grand a month. so if they want that,

then they know there's going to be an investment upfront. you're not going to, anytime you invest in business, I've built a lot of businesses where I paid out a fortune to build those businesses because I had locations, I had rent, I had staff, I had inventory, all the things. so I look, the people that find me and the people that I look for are people that get it. They get that.

Business isn't free. I don't work with DIYers. I work with people who are serious about their growth, serious about their expertise, love what they hear and say, I should be doing that. I should be making that kind of money for my brilliance and my expertise. So it's really getting very clear in your marketing. And I'm sure there will be a lot of people listening to this that will think, my gosh, I mean, I have DIYers around me all the time online and.

and they've come to my workshops. And you know what? I watch them and I've seen them even after years still be in the same place. I mean, you get what you pay for really. So I'm good with that.

Christian Brim (26:36.62)
Well, it is. So part of it is the act of paying, right? It makes it important to you. And part of that is why the price is that high. Like it has to be that important to you or you're not going to be successful because I see a lot of entrepreneurs out there that are just making it and they're

Ann Carden (26:42.23)
It is. It's yes.

Christian Brim (27:05.802)
struggling, but they're comfortable in that struggle, right? it, true, true. But, but, but they, they think that, again, that's why I think these, these low ticket offers and these, the, know, all of these courses and stuff are, they scratch their itch, but they don't solve their problem. Right. It's just like, well, that's enough. I'm doing something, see, you know, like I'm, but

Ann Carden (27:07.162)
Right, well, that's okay for them.

Ann Carden (27:26.842)
Yeah.

Ann Carden (27:31.226)
Yeah. You know who I think low ticket offers are great for Christian? People like you and me that actually have a lot of expertise and we just want to learn one thing from somebody. I buy them all the time. I buy them all the time, but I've never scaled up into their bigger thing. You know, I'm like, that now I haven't seen that or I haven't learned that. And so I'll buy into some sort of a low ticket thing, maybe to get one point or one little quick

Christian Brim (27:41.902)
Sure.

Ann Carden (28:01.028)
thing. That's who I think courses and low ticket things are great for is people that actually have a lot of experience and knowledge and just want to like up their skill set. They're not doing it to build their business. There's a difference, right? I don't ever buy those to build my business. I invest in really high end coaches and consultants to build my business and keep growing. I don't ever buy a course thinking, this is going to build my business to millions. That's just not, yeah.

Christian Brim (28:28.642)
Yeah, but I mean, think I see it. It could be any number of service providers. Like, it could be accountants like we are, or marketing agencies, you know, where it's like, a lot of times what I see is it's like, I'm going to pay this money and then the problem's going to go away.

Ann Carden (28:35.513)
Mm-hmm.

Ann Carden (28:53.602)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (28:54.35)
That's not how that works. You have to do something. Always. Always.

Ann Carden (28:59.48)
Right. Always. Somebody does. Somebody does in your business, whether it's you or someone else. Somebody has to do something.

Christian Brim (29:09.684)
And you can't just write checks to make it go away. No.

Ann Carden (29:15.3)
We're not the magic bullet. that's the thing too. Here's a good example. You asked me, how do you know if somebody is a good client? If they're so desperate, and what I mean by that is, there's kind of a joke that goes around on social media. You've probably seen it.

you say something's $50,000 and they say, send me the invoice, but you say something's 5,000 or 500 and they say, well, I want to make sure that you do this and I want to make sure that you do this and then make sure that, you know, and everything is right on the person they're hiring. And a $50,000 person says, great, that sounds great. Send me the invoice. So it's, it's a very different mindset. And so understanding that we're not a magic bullet. don't do the work.

for my clients, they still have to take the actions and do the work and implement or have someone do it for them, which is fine too, obviously that's great too, but ultimately their success is still up to them.

Christian Brim (30:19.854)
Who do you like to work with?

Ann Carden (30:24.65)
I love to work with people that are true experts. I really have two sides to my business. They're either already in a professional service business and they're wanting to level up and really scale that. A lot of times they're not charging for things they could be. So maybe they're giving away strategy to bring in a client. So those make good people. Maybe they don't have a scalable, really high end offer. And so they need something that is

more rinse and repeat that can be a gateway for bigger clients. So people that are scaling, but then the other side is I work with people who really want to launch a high-end coaching or consulting business. They've got the experience, they've got the expertise, they've spent years in their industry, years in their field. So they're true experts.

And now they want to help other people. And so I helped them step into premium from the very beginning, not go down the low ticket course than the, you know, the little bitty coaching clients, but step into those really high end. Like I've helped people right out of the gate get $75,000 clients. So, and it was their first sale. so helping them understand that this is a level they should be playing at.

Plus, they don't have to work with as many people. It's not the grind. They just don't need all the same things. A lot of times they don't even realize that that's even an opportunity for them. So that's sort of my mission. I want to make sure they understand you don't have to sell something for $2,000 or even $10,000. Unless you want to sell an hour for $10,000 or two hours, that would be different, right? You can play at the premium level. And in fact, people

are desperate for true experts. They are desperate for experts because there are so many out there that claim to be, but they're really not. And I'm sure this will ruffle some feathers, but it's just, it's the reality of things.

Christian Brim (32:30.126)
No, you're a hunter. You're not ruffling any feathers here. I think you're 100 % right. There's

It kind of goes back to that marketing axiom of you have to sell them what they want, not what they need. And there's a lot of crack cocaine out there for sale and it's cheap and it might give you a quick high, but it does you no long-term good. In fact, probably does you some harm.

Ann Carden (32:44.708)
Hmm.

Ann Carden (32:52.255)
you

Ann Carden (32:58.019)
No.

Ann Carden (33:01.626)
No sustainability. I'm about helping people build real businesses. That's going to be around. It's not about a strategy. It's not about, you know, start a Facebook group and then monetize the Facebook group and then, oops, I got shut down on Facebook. That's not a business. And actually that happened to me, by the way, right before COVID. And so those to me are, that's teaching people a strategy.

That's teaching people how to sell an offer, but that is not teaching people how to build a business. And that's not the way that I do things with people. Also, I believe in more customized approaches where everybody's different, different things are gonna align with different people. Some of my clients absolutely love the podcast route and they wanna bring in high-end clients through their podcast or through guesting. Other people love speaking on stages. So other people love running virtual rooms and virtual events. So I customize.

the strategies that are going to align with my clients and what they most want to do. And then we build around that so that they're building the sustainability, this visibility and this brand that's going to be around for a long time, not just offers that are going to impact and change people's lives, but they're also building sustainability in their business.

Christian Brim (34:16.878)
So would an equivalent brand for an individual, are we talking about creating a Robert Kiyosaki brand or a Dave Ramsey brand or those are in the finance realm, but Dan Sullivan, are those, is that the level of brand that you're working with people to achieve?

Ann Carden (34:38.786)
Not typically, typically the people that I'm working with are not multi-million dollar gurus or they're not, that isn't really even the direction that they care to go. The people that I'm working with are really people like you and me that they just want to have a really great, maybe a multi-million dollar business, but they want to play at a higher level. They don't want to live in their business. They want to have a life that they love, but they do want to make an impact.

and they don't wanna have a big team. So the people that I work with really want more of an expert business where they can enjoy their life and it's maybe their next chapter, it's maybe their next player, it's their legacy, but they don't wanna go the course route. Those things can all come if that's the direction they wanna go. Of course I know how to do all of those things. But most of the time the people that I work with, they wanna just make a million or a couple million or two or three million dollars.

just working with a handful of clients at the expertise that they have and they don't want to live in their business. So those tend to be more my people that I work with. So yeah, I'm not looking to build Dan Sullivan Brands, Tony Robbins Brands. That's not, I would have to probably live in my business to do that and that's not my place. So yeah, yeah, no, I want to love my life too.

Christian Brim (35:57.167)
If you just work harder, then, you know...

Ann Carden (36:03.96)
And that's the thing, I really do, but the thing is I really do believe that people still need the expertise of us. Everybody, I've of course coached and consulted with gurus, but I don't need to work with people like that to get the results I want. And often I don't enjoy those kinds of programs. They're very volume based, they're very group oriented. Once you've been in business for so many years, I...

That just feels like a lot of time for me that I don't wanna do anymore. I've done all of that. So the people that I work with tend to feel the same way. They don't wanna be in big groups of people. They're past all of that. It's like just show me how I can turn this into something that I love, that it's gonna light me up and I'm gonna have the life I want. And I get to impact people.

but they're not looking to do it on such a crazy volume scale. And that's really what we're talking about.

Christian Brim (37:02.474)
And how do people find you if they want to learn more about expert in you?

Ann Carden (37:07.534)
Yes, if you are interested, you can go to my website at expertinu.com or you can go to my consulting website, which is annelcardin.com. So I have the marketing agency website and then I also have my consulting, but there's a lot of the same stuff on both.

Christian Brim (37:26.286)
Perfect. Listeners will have those links in the show notes. If you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. If you don't like what you've heard, you can shoot us a message, give us some suggestions, and yeah, we'll get rid of Anne. It'll be no problem. Until then, ta-ta for now.

Ann Carden (37:29.722)
Thank you.

Ann Carden (37:39.066)
Don't have her on again. There you go.

Ann Carden (37:48.622)
Thank you, bye.