The Dark Side of Fame: An Entertainment Lawyer's Perspective | Steve Gallegos

PROFITABLE TALKS...

In this episode of the Profitable Creative, host Christian Brim speaks with entertainment lawyer Steve Gallegos about his journey from the Marine Corps to the legal world, focusing on the challenges and realities of the creative industry. They discuss the often exploitative nature of the entertainment business, the importance of understanding contracts and rights, and the need for creatives to know their worth. Steve emphasizes the significance of personal development for lawyers and how it can enhance their ability to support clients. The conversation also touches on the struggles of fame and identity, urging creatives to reflect on their motivations and the potential pitfalls of seeking validation through their work.

PROFITABLE TAKEAWAYS...

• Steve Gallegos transitioned from the Marine Corps to law enforcement before becoming an entertainment lawyer.
• The entertainment industry can be abusive and exploitative for creatives.
• Many creatives seek validation and acceptance through their art, which can lead to unhealthy choices.
• Understanding the business side of creativity is crucial for success.
• Lawyers often face conflicts of interest when representing clients in the entertainment industry.
• Creatives should be aware of the complexities of contracts and rights in the industry.
• Personal development can play a significant role in a lawyer's ability to help clients.
• Fame can change people and lead to identity crises for artists.
• It's important for creatives to know their worth and understand the financial aspects of their work.
• Building strong legal foundations can prevent future issues for creatives.

Grab the entire Profit First for Creatives Book for FREE: https://christianbrim.com/free-book-download/

Are you ready to pay yourself more… yeah it’s called an S-Corp. ➡️
https://calendly.com/cbrim/free-consultation-clone

Transcript

Christian Brim (00:01.4)
Welcome to another episode of the Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. A special shout out to our one listener in Mountain Lake Terrace, Washington. No idea where that is, but with a name like Mountain Lake and Terrace, it's gotta be pretty. Joining me today, the esteemed Steve Gallegos. Steve, welcome to the show.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (00:30.827)
Thank you brother, how are you?

Christian Brim (00:32.246)
I am well. didn't put Esquire after that. had a joke. I was having this conversation with another guest of he was British and I said, your name just sounds like it should have a sir in front of it. And he said, like, you know, knighthood, you can't just assume, but Esquire, you can. So I thought about adding Esquire to my name, but that might be pretentious. Sorry, I'm rambling.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (01:00.395)
You can do it. You can do it.

Christian Brim (01:02.094)
Okay.

Yes, I don't even know what Esquire means. I mean, I always see it after attorneys names, but do you have any insight into that?

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (01:11.863)
Um, you know, I haven't looked into that. I really haven't looked into it. It's just a tradition. It's an honorable, noble title that has been carried by lawyers, barristers really from, you know, the crown, uh, back in the 1800s and perhaps even more. So I know that Esquire means gentlemen in its, uh, you know, common, common usage.

Christian Brim (01:25.326)
Mmm.

Christian Brim (01:34.83)
Oh, OK. Well, then I definitely can't use it. All right. Enough of this nonsense about British royalty. So the reason why I invited you on this show, I had you on the Chris project and we had a lovely conversation. But your area of expertise, you're a lawyer, but your area of expertise is working with creatives in

LA. I know your story. Give us the Reader's Digest version of how you became a lawyer for talent.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (02:16.691)
That's a fascinating, it's a fascinating story. And I'll keep it short, because you know us, Laura's bigot paid by the word. the more I talk, the more I earn, right. And I figured that's the same thing for podcast interviews. Although your show might run for two days. No, but your show might run for two days nonetheless. you know, so it started

Christian Brim (02:25.004)
Yes, yes I do. Right.

Christian Brim (02:31.658)
I'm not paying you by the word, just so we're clear.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (02:43.731)
After the Marine Corps, became a law enforcement officer in Santa Barbara, California, worked for the sheriff and then for the marshal. And the marshal was in charge of the courts. And so I was assigned to one of the courts and the judge that I worked for as essentially a bailiff, a court bailiff, he was a former in Rusty. Who's he? People's I don't I've never watched that show. Yeah, I'm more like.

Christian Brim (03:01.646)
You're like rusty, you were like rusty on the people's court.

didn't watch. Okay. Rusty was the bailiff and he was this old man that just kind of shuffled and you're like, I don't even know what he's going to do if someone

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (03:15.691)
Got it, yeah, I was like rusty but a younger version of it, yeah. I shuffled fast. And so the judge was a former entertainer and he knew that I had aspirations to become a international recording artist myself. And so he suggested to me, he says, why don't you go to law school? Not only do I think you have an aptitude for it, but lawyers run the entertainment industry.

Christian Brim (03:19.328)
Okay, sorry, go ahead. Okay.

Christian Brim (03:45.069)
Mmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (03:45.693)
So you could open doors as a lawyer that you could never open as one in a million singer-songwriter. And I thought, whoa, what a brilliant idea. I can pursue my passion, my music career, and I can wear Armani suits at the same time. Dude, I'm in. Andy called Esquire. Yeah, I didn't even think about that. The Armani suits, I was in. So I signed up. I went full board. I remember leaving the marshal's office.

Christian Brim (03:51.682)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (04:00.664)
Yes. And be called Esquire.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (04:15.827)
And parking cars during the day, well, I went to law school at night and I did this for three years. And that was my segue into, you know, into law. wasn't, you know, I, yeah, I cared about people and I wanted to fight for rights and justice and those kinds of things. But my impetus was I wanted to advance my own music career as a lawyer and have access that the

average, you know, actor, singer, songwriter, musician would never happen.

Christian Brim (04:50.86)
And so how did that work out as far as furthering your career in the entertainment business?

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (04:56.855)
I think many of your listeners and perhaps you, Chris, yourself might have watched The Wizard of Oz multiple times. You remember the scene where Dorothy, Toto, and her friends arrive at Oz finally and they pull back the curtain. And what do they see? They see a scary old man with crazy hair and he's pulling levers, making noise and blowing smoke and all this stuff. That's what I discovered.

Christian Brim (05:03.693)
Yes.

Christian Brim (05:12.5)
Mm-hmm. A man.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (05:24.021)
the entertainment industry was. It was very abusive. was very, it was not a nice place. It wasn't a good place for me or a bunch of my clients who came to me with stories and things that happened to them that they wouldn't bring out in public because of fear of being blacklisted. You'll never work in this industry again kind of thing. And we see this nowadays, right? Popping up in the news almost daily now, but it's been over the last several years that

Christian Brim (05:50.327)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (05:53.287)
skin has been peeled back layer by layer and we're still seeing the depths of depravity that exists in the entertainment industry because you know there's power brokers, there's people that have access, there's people that have the ability to give you Christian Brim the shot at stardom, whatever that means to you and many times people are willing to do whatever, right? Let go of their...

Christian Brim (06:19.381)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (06:21.355)
defenses, let go of whatever protective measures they might have grown up with and discard every warning that their parents and friends have given them about the industry and what to look out for and things like that. I remember I was the same way. remember going to meetings with agents and those kinds of things where they just acted really creepy and, you know, not now, but I was very good looking at the time. you know, people would try and take advantage of me.

physically, sexually, emotionally, they would play on those emotions. And so I found out really quickly, well, it took me a couple of years actually, quite a number of years before I decided I can't be in this industry anymore. And so I have to find my way out.

Christian Brim (07:11.182)
It's like that song, I don't remember the name of it, Rolling Stones is off of Tattoo You and they said you don't need no acting school to be a star in bed. Yeah, I mean they knew back in the 70s and 80s they were singing about it. So you transition then into helping those people. I don't know if I told you before, my middle daughter is a figurative oil painter.

and she moved to West Hollywood several years ago because she thought that was what she needed to do for her career. And, you know, the gig for figurative artists is to be in galleries, right? And she'd had a couple of years under her belt, a couple of shows under her belt, so she wasn't as naive as a lot of people that show up in Hollywood. But...

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (07:51.253)
We lost the feed, you're frozen.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (07:59.415)
Christian, if you can hear me, we lost the feed. You're frozen on my screen.

Christian Brim (08:09.228)
you know, she finally got an offer from a studio to display her stuff and the studio owner said, well, we'll take you on. But here's the deal. You got to cut your prices. And my daughter was like, let me get this straight. You want me to cut my prices and then you're going to take half? And she's like, no, no, no, no, I'm not interested. you know, but

What she came to realize and what echoes what you're saying is, that there's there's always some creative next in line that will take the deal to get those experience bucks, quote unquote, or whatever it is. And it's it's just it Hollywood grinds people out. It's like a big sausage machine. And it doesn't really matter who they put in the top. It's just.

all going to come out the same on the end, right? So sorry, you you decided to represent those folks. How did you how did you do that? Like what were the kind of things that you did or do?

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (09:08.951)
Correct.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (09:23.831)
Well, was because I could relate to them, right? Because I was in the middle of, I was in that war. I was on that battlefield addressing the issues that many creatives, actors, musicians, writers, songwriters, authors, artists, right? Fine artists, photographers, they're all in that same space of, I'm a creative, I want the world to see my products.

Christian Brim (09:27.406)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (09:53.527)
And I need access, right, because access is generally limited. And this was well before the internet, right? The internet was barely a gleam in the internet founder's eye at the time, I'm sure, right, in the 80s and 90s. Is he the father of the internet? didn't, yeah, he's awfully young for that. Anyway, so this was in the 80s and 90s. And there wasn't a lot of people that were helping.

Christian Brim (10:00.758)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (10:07.956)
Al Gorezise. Al Gorezise. He founded the internet. Yes, that is correct.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (10:23.223)
the creatives, right? I mean, they had access to lawyers, but here's the thing, a lot of the lawyers would be conflicted out. In other words, you want to be a lawyer, entertainment lawyer. Well, what is your dream? What is your aspiration? Your aspiration is to represent the studios, the record labels, the agencies, the power brokers. And so if I was a lawyer for Sony Records,

Christian Brim (10:31.788)
Hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (10:52.291)
and some cat off the street, great musician came up to me wanting advice. Guess what? I'm conflicted out. I cannot give that individual my best because I've been hired by the insurance company. It's kind of like an insurance company, right? They do that too. Insurance companies will go and they'll hire the best lawyers just to do menial tasks, right? Oftentimes, so that when

Christian Brim (11:11.052)
Yes.

Christian Brim (11:17.923)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (11:21.599)
A victim meets that lawyer, that lawyer is conflicted out and he cannot go and represent them against that insurance company or against that employer, right? So that was the game at the time. So recognizing this, I was one of those guys that was anti-corporation and I would teach my clients, I started teaching, speaking at symposiums at the Beverly Hills Bar Association and other organizations, the...

Christian Brim (11:26.307)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (11:51.861)
National Academy of Songwriters, et cetera, the Songwriters Guild of America, how to do these things on your own, how to publish your own music, how to publish your own songs, how to create your own record label so that you could maintain your rights and you didn't have to rely so much on these big corporations that, you know, like your daughter has experienced, you know, they just want to take as much from you and return as little.

I want to give an issue a caveat here because of some company or label that has integrity and honesty and is reputable. they've been doing business like this for years. If they're listening to this, I don't want to make it seem like I'm painting every corporation or every record label or publishing company, television studio or film studio with the same brush. But there's a lot of them that

do participate in this kind of activity because it's profits over anything else. And like you pointed out, hey, Steve, you don't like what I'm offering? Next, right? There's a line of people around the block waiting for the opportunity and waiting to do and willing to do what you might not do for me, right? In order just for the opportunity.

Christian Brim (13:11.35)
Right. Yeah, it. It reminds me of this quote. I don't know what band it was, but it was some band that said I I would rather own all of the rights and sell 20,000 albums than, you know, do a deal and sell 20 million albums like because of all the cuts involved. And it also reminds me of.

Dave Chappelle talking about his experience with Netflix. And, you know, he said he grew up in New York City and he said, you know, he when he was a young man came across this money game, you know, you know, hide the card or pick the card or whatever. And he

realized after watching it, and after losing and then like he watched and and he was trying to figure it out. He realized that there were shills in the crowd, right that would come up and step up and play the game and win that would get people to, you know, want to play. And he equated it to when he was negotiating and having this deal with Netflix. He said, I realized

that everybody at that table but me was in on the game. Right? You know, my agent, my lawyer, like, and it wasn't that they were necessarily not representing his interests, but they were all feeding from the same trough when the trough was him. Right. And I think, I think most creatives, their biggest failure is not understanding one, their value and believing in their value. And two,

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (14:51.063)
Correct.

Christian Brim (15:06.646)
understanding how the money works. you, you, know, when I first started looking at the, the recording industry specifically, I was like shocked how many different ways that that pie was divvied up and, how the rights were, you know, allocated. I was shocked. like, well, no wonder the artists get screwed because everybody's got their hand out.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (15:30.391)
Exactly. Yeah. A lot of people think they only see the cover, right? They only see Taylor Swift sold a hundred million albums and she's a platinum selling artist. You know, I don't know how many albums she sold. I don't follow her music, but she's a very talented individual and very business savvy to take the opportunities that she was given in order to make her own way into this industry. she's now

one of the power brokers. But like you pointed out, they don't see that from those hundred million albums, every party, for example, that the studio throws to promote the album, and they bring in yachts and they bring in, you know, other artists to make an appearance for the media. They give the media, you know, carte blanche champagne and...

you know caviar and shrimp and lobster and all these things That's not the insured via I keep saying insurance company. That's not the record label Being nice and and throwing you a big party. That's them Doing this on your dime because every single expense down to the limousine down to the gift baskets down to whatever They throw the crystal champagne glasses that they use They pay the caterer for it comes out of

the expenses, right? The royalties, before you see any royalties, it all comes out. So yeah, you sell a million albums and you think, woohoo, I made it. No, you're getting maybe a $10,000 check at the end of the year for your efforts.

Christian Brim (16:58.176)
Right.

Christian Brim (17:11.862)
Right, and you're looking and going like, what the fuck just happened to me, right? Yeah.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (17:15.595)
Yeah, yeah, and that's happened so many times. But Christian, you're talking about the creatives and wanting access and pursuing dreams and fame and fortune and all these things in order to get their products and services out there and be in front of the public. There's far deeper that goes into this equation that not a lot of people talk about. And I know you and I touched on it on our last interview on the

regarding my own story and what I found out is that, and I think we discussed this too a little bit, that whatever business you go into, whether it's real estate, medicine, law, entertainment, you have to know your why. Why are you doing this? What are you wanting from this experience? And most people don't know why or they think on the surface of, because I want money, because I want people to see my art, because I'm a great singer.

Christian Brim (18:05.454)
Hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (18:15.395)
And I just want to sing. That's what you hear a lot of people. I just want to act. I just want to sing. I just want to direct, whatever the case may be. Why is that? What are you after? What are you looking for? Because my own story, I found out that what I was looking for was something that I thought that the industry could give me. I was looking for love. I was looking for acceptance. I was looking for admiration. was looking for that validation that I couldn't get.

Christian Brim (18:18.387)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (18:37.39)
Hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (18:44.149)
or didn't think I had access to anywhere else in my life. And that's what led me into that industry that I thought gave you all that. And there's many creatives that that's where they're at. They're in the same situation. They're looking for validation and they're thinking, this is how I get it. And because they're so eager to get that validation, you're so pretty. You're gorgeous. Man, dude, you're looking. You're good looking. can, Christopher Brink.

Christian Brim (18:52.514)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (19:12.215)
Christian Brim, you could be on the cover of GQ. Are you kidding me? Yeah, man. Right? It is true. You could be. You look like the most interesting man in America. Have you been told that?

Christian Brim (19:16.494)
It's true, it could.

Christian Brim (19:24.238)
Well, you it's funny, you say that somebody else said that I looked like Orson Welles. And of course, I'm thinking about the Orson Welles I knew as a child, which was an older Orson Welles. And I was slightly offended. But then I went, well, but I went and looked at the younger pictures of him as an actor. And I'm like, he was a good looking dude. So I'm like, okay, I'm fine.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (19:29.321)
Or some walls, there you go, easy, wow.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (19:37.505)
Yeah.

Well, that's the only Orson Welles that exists, is the order.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (19:48.375)
He was a good looking dude in his old age too, right? So anyway, yeah, you, Christian could land on the coverage of GQ. And so if that's your dream or if that's what you're looking for, right? That, that somebody sees me, somebody hears me, what are you willing to give up to get it right? Make a deal with the devil? And a lot of people do. So if you're able to identify as a creative listening to this program, I don't care what creative industry or segment niche you're in.

Christian Brim (20:06.68)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (20:18.217)
If you're looking for admiration, acceptance, love, et cetera, as a result of producing your art, you're in the wrong industry. There's a better way. And I implore you to find it, because otherwise you're going to open doors and give access to people, to your life, to your private life that you wouldn't otherwise think of giving to anybody.

Christian Brim (20:40.408)
Yeah. No, I that's sage advice. You know, I, I thought about reflected on like all of the creative genius that end up dying young, right. And I look at you know, and Prince is probably not the best example, because he was older, but like, you know, John Belushi and like, all of these great talents.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (20:55.255)
You

Christian Brim (21:09.678)
you could even do Hank Williams, like it doesn't really matter. Your your the genre or the medium, but like these fascinating creative talents, right? But they had something underneath that was driving them. And it was part of their genius. It was. But in the end, the success, you know, like Chris Farley, like you have all this success and, and

And then it does it doesn't fill that hole. and, and that's, I that's what I think, you know, these people take their own lives is that's where the desperation is right? Like, I wanted this so badly, and I gave up so much for it. And it didn't get me what I want.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (21:58.131)
or it did temporarily, right? It fed you for that moment, for that week or year or a couple of years, and then the industry moved on to the younger, better looking version of you, right? Females in particular are so susceptible to this, right? Because hey, Michelle Pfeiffer was hot in the 80s, and now you couldn't find her on the side of a milk carton if they printed her, right?

Christian Brim (22:09.612)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (22:29.051)
That's the way the industry is. And so when the applause dies down, when the stage lights go off, who are you then? Are you... And when the agents stop calling and the scripts stop coming in, and the invitation to the galas and the red carpet events stop coming in, you know, that's when you really have to get in touch with yourself and go, you know, who am I? And why am I doing all this? And if you can't answer that,

Christian Brim (22:37.038)
Mmm.

Christian Brim (22:54.957)
Yeah.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (22:58.367)
That's when you turn to alcohol. That's when you turn to drugs and sex and porn and all these other ways to cope with the idea that nobody's asking for me anymore. I'm not relevant or am I relevant, right? And this is the struggle. How do I stay relevant? And so they'll go on the internet and do something stupid just to get on the news, right? And it's unnecessary. It's so unnecessary. So I go back to the idea that you cannot extricate who you are.

Christian Brim (23:00.558)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (23:05.357)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (23:28.011)
from what you do, right? You think, well, you know, this is who I am on stage, this is who I am in my personal life. No, it's all so intertwined and you need to identify who you are in order to be successful in anything.

Christian Brim (23:29.708)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (23:38.008)
Was.

Christian Brim (23:42.934)
Was that how your journey went when like you came to the conclusion that I don't want to be Julio Iglesias anymore?

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (23:49.003)
Well, I never really wanted to be Julio for the sake of being Julio, right? As I said, wanted that access, I wanted that visibility that Julio had because I thought, look at the most loved man, that was my perception, the most loved man on earth is Julio Iglesias right now, right? Because his records were being translated into 50 different languages and he's performing it.

Christian Brim (23:59.373)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (24:16.023)
10,000 different countries and, you know, millions of people every year. I'm exaggerating, of course. But that's what I thought, right? And so I said, I want that, not because I wanted the lack of privacy, right? Because I couldn't stand going out to a restaurant and, you know, having cameras in my face all the time, and especially these days, right? my gosh, you can't do anything today.

Christian Brim (24:31.949)
Right.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (24:43.875)
We were safe in the 80s and 90s, right? There was no internet. We didn't have camera phones. We didn't have Instagram. And every breath you took, you're posting it on Instagram. We didn't have that. So we were fortunate in a sense. But I remember going to places and being a mini celebrity, if you will. I had some level of success. And I would get in the middle of dinner, hey, aren't you so, can I have your autograph?

Christian Brim (24:46.563)
Right.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (25:10.903)
I'm like, yeah, yeah, it feels good for the moment. But then as a lawyer too, I would start going to events. I went to many events. And then as people started getting to know you, they would come up to me and say, hey, Steve, listen, do you think you can get my script to Spielberg? Or hey, man, how you doing? Here's my CD. Could you send it off to Sony Records for me? In other words, I was Axis. I represented Axis to many, many people. And at first, it was cool because look at me.

Christian Brim (25:35.147)
Hmm

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (25:40.375)
All these people want me. There's a line of people waiting to talk to me everywhere I go. And then you start seeing that for what it really is. It's that they don't want you for you. They want you for what they think you can give them access to. And if you could decline, if you say, no, sorry, I can't help you, or you need to come to my office and hire me or something like that, then all of a sudden you're dirt, right? You're worthless to them. They don't want you anymore.

Christian Brim (25:45.677)
Right?

Christian Brim (25:51.682)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (26:03.159)
Right.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (26:07.575)
So that was the situation. like I said, because I saw such negativity in this industry, it was inconsistent with who I really was deep down inside. And I had to start asking that question. I didn't realize, in other words, I didn't know when I was pursuing the music stage that I was looking for respect, admiration, validation. That came later, after many years of deep

Christian Brim (26:18.221)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (26:36.625)
searching and analysis of what, why am I really doing this, right? I thought I was just after the experience. That's what I wanted, the experience. And then when the experience happened, yay, I felt elated. When the experience, the applause died down, I was like, my gosh, when's my next gig? When's the phone's not ringing? I'm not in the media today. I'm not in the newspaper. you know, all this stuff. you start, anxiety builds up and you start freaking out. my gosh.

Christian Brim (26:41.516)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (27:06.199)
What do need to do? What's happening? Do I need to change my voice coach? Do I need to change my wardrobe? Do I need to get plastic surgery? Do I need to sleep with someone? So, right, you start just thinking about this weird stuff. And so it wasn't until, like I said, that deep analysis, that deep questioning, why are you really doing this? Why do you want to be in this industry so much? And I came up with the answers. And that's when I was able, Christian, to start making a shift out.

Christian Brim (27:35.254)
And you were an attorney the whole time. And so how do you practice law now? Like, what do you work on?

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (27:37.365)
The whole time.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (27:46.007)
I'm semi-retired from law. In other words, I don't keep normal office hours anymore. I work only on a referral basis. you know, so just representing people in creatives and whatever they need, whether it's, you know, but you have to be referred. don't, you know, solicit clients anymore.

Christian Brim (27:55.34)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (28:08.066)
Well, so, but like what what are the common things that people come to you to solve? Like what are the issues?

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (28:16.919)
Right now, there's a lot of media presence, slander, defamation issues that people are dealing with. Deal a lot with contracts, author contracts, music contracts, et cetera. And primarily, what I consider is it's all around business because nowadays you're a business entity, whether you're a songwriter, a painter, an artist, a singer, dancer, whatever, you're a business entity. And so what does your business entity mean?

Christian Brim (28:23.159)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (28:27.746)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (28:38.552)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (28:44.811)
Sometimes they need assistance with the setting up the business side. Sometimes they get in litigation because they don't check the boxes and cross the, know, dot the I's and cross the T's when they're doing things, setting things up or building relationships or getting gigs, right? I know a lot of people that clients that come in and say, well, you know, I agreed to do this and I did it on a handshake basis or no handshake basis. I just did it hoping.

Christian Brim (28:53.166)
Yes.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (29:13.707)
that they would pay me or they said the agreements would be forthcoming and now they're telling me that I don't own the rights to my material. They're telling me that I'm obligated to do this, this, that or the other. And I don't know what to do. And so at this point, it's a little too late because now you're going to be expending money trying to reverse the entire process. And so I recommend to people that, you know, if you're going to start in this industry, you need to start right.

Get with a lawyer. There's plenty of good entertainment lawyers. Always ask who they represent, right? Because if you're a musical artist and your objective is to get a deal with Sony or one of the other big studios, you want to make sure that your lawyer is not conflicted out and they don't also represent those companies.

Christian Brim (30:08.288)
Yeah, I think it kind of goes back to that. You got to understand the business. You got to understand the game. You know, business is a game and you've got to understand who the players are, how they make money and how you fit into the equation. Because, you know, going back to my statement about all the different rights, I like

I was interviewing, I can't remember his name. It's Peter. I don't remember his last name for this show. And he's like an old producer recording artist and talking to him, I'm like, okay, so you've got the song rights. You got the music rights. You've got the recording rights.

You've got the distribution rights. You've got the, you know, like all of these different layers that I was like, I didn't even think about that.

crazy.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (31:20.855)
Yeah, the industry created it, you know, for themselves. It's let's, let's break up these rights and these rights and these rights, because the more elements, the more pieces of pie that they can get their hands on, you know, the better for them. And here's another

suggestion that I give to your audience listening to this or that are listening live today or a year from now, 10 years from now is that you think that who you're dealing with, right, your agent, your manager, the record label, the studio gallery, the art gallery owner, whoever it is that you're dealing with, you think that they have your best interests in mind and many times they do have your interests in mind, but

Christian Brim (32:03.992)
Mmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (32:07.873)
Here's the thing to keep in mind. Everybody, including you, including me, everybody acts in their own self-interest, period. I don't care if you're building Melinda Gates and you're giving away billions of your existing billion dollars, you're doing this, yes, for philanthropy and for me and because you're a good person, but because it fills something inside of you, right? If you do something.

Christian Brim (32:19.554)
Yes. Yes.

Christian Brim (32:36.333)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (32:36.737)
philanthropic or something charitable, it makes you feel whatever it makes you feel. And so if you find somebody doing something nice for you, great, accept it, but recognize that that person, or she, is also doing it much more for themselves. And so they're going to be looking out for themselves in many ways more than you. And Christian, that's one of the problems I have with

Christian Brim (32:42.85)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (33:06.645)
the practice of law, lawyers, and I've said this from stage before and I'll say it now again publicly is that I believe that many lawyers have a huge conflict, ethical conflict with their clients, especially on the litigation side of things. I remember when I was practicing law and I was a young associate, I learned this lesson the hard way that I was very adept at getting

Christian Brim (33:24.865)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (33:36.887)
issues resolved for my clients out of what's called a summary judgment motion. Now there was summary judgment is when before a trial, before a lot of the expenses get wrapped up in a litigated case, somebody's getting sued, trial data set, now you start discovery, you do a little bit of discovery and you find out information that could help you win the case almost immediately, right? And have the court throw it out.

Christian Brim (34:03.224)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (34:05.673)
I was doing this successfully for many of our firm's clients. I thought I was doing a great thing for the clients I was until the partners called me in and spanked me. Why?

Christian Brim (34:18.966)
You weren't making him enough money.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (34:20.759)
Exactly. Exactly. I was losing the firm $100,000 because the client was only paying $15,000, $20,000 for us to win the case on summary judgment motion. And so, wow, I really had that struggle. I, you know, for many years I practiced with that firm, but it always like ate me up that, you know, I couldn't do

Christian Brim (34:22.936)
Yeah.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (34:49.995)
what was best for the client all the time, even though that's my ethical duty to do so. And so lawyers have an inherent conflict when they say, yeah, I can handle that case for you. It's going to cost X amount of dollars per hour. And we're going to need to do this, this, this, that, and the other. Man, I don't know how to change it, but it's a real problem.

Christian Brim (35:16.256)
Yes. And I've experienced it. you know, first of all, in business, if you have to hire an attorney because of litigation, you've already lost. You know, the smart thing is to use attorneys to keep you from getting into litigation. And, you know, once you get into litigation, I hope our listeners never have to experience that. But the lawyers just feed off each other.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (35:32.651)
Okay.

Christian Brim (35:45.97)
And and it's like, yeah, well, you I mean, everybody's probably had somebody that's gotten divorced that they know. And and like, you know, you're they're arguing over the toaster and paying, you know, cumulatively six, seven hundred dollars an hour to do so. And it's like this makes no rational sense. Why are you doing this? And it's because those lawyers are getting paid and, you know,

There's that emotion like, you know, I want to be right. I want to prove that I'm right. I want them to hurt. Right. And there are lots of lawyers that are happy to take your money if if that's what you want. But, know, the the the business aspect of law from from from a consumer speaking here as a consumer is is preventative, not not litigating for sure.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (36:40.439)
Correct, correct, yeah. I like that you said that you've already lost because in many ways you have, you may not have lost the case, but you're certainly going to lose a lot of money or going to spend a lot of money trying to get yourself out of something. And like you said, a lot of people pursue these things on emotion, especially in divorce cases and even business cases. I just hate that person and I want to see them hurt. I want them to pay all their money to their lawyer.

I want them to suffer like I did. And if the lawyer takes that kind of case and behaves that way, just to drum up the legal fees, you you're in the wrong profession lawyer, you need to go out and do something else. Christian, I don't know if we discussed the last time, but I'm forming an initiative as a personal development expert that I've been serving as for a number of years now.

I've always had this thought in the back of my mind and I'm starting to bring it forth to the marketplace still in development. But I believe that lawyers, like you said, we can be so much more effective and provide such a greater service to not only to our clients, but to the society as a whole by learning to become personal development coaches with our clients. Because

Christian Brim (38:05.25)
Mmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (38:07.157)
You have a client that comes in and because they did something to somebody, you represent them, you get them off, you get them, you know, a reduced sentence, you get whatever happens, right? But then they leave your office and then they go and redo and repeat the same behavior. Well, that kind of behavioral activity can be curtailed. In other words, we can put a stop to it. Why? Because we as lawyers have access to the client.

Christian Brim (38:35.49)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (38:35.603)
We know what their mindset is. There's the attorney client privilege that we can take advantage of. So, you know, we can help that client long term, not just a transactional experience between the lawyer and the client. But if I have a client that says to me, OK, you know, the reason I'm doing this because of drugs, alcohol, I'm at my spouse, I hate my business partner, I feel unfulfilled, whatever the case may be.

If I'm trained in personal development analysis and coaching, I can help that individual beyond the parameters of the case, right? And I think that if lawyers do that, if they train themselves to do that, we can help people in many ways that we're not doing enough.

Christian Brim (39:09.193)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (39:13.632)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (39:23.788)
I love that. It'd be kind of like a physician rather than, you know, saying, you've got pre-diabetes, you know, you need to start taking drugs, you know, really helping them change their lifestyle so that they didn't need the drugs, right? So that applies in a lot of different dynamics. Law definitely needs help.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (39:44.023)
Correct.

Christian Brim (39:53.55)
For sure. Not bagging on lawyers, you know, just an observation.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (39:55.253)
Yeah. No, no, no, no. mean, you know, lawyers exist. not going away anytime soon, regardless of what, was it Edgar, Edgar? No, no, no, Shakespeare. kill all the lawyers, right? we're not going anywhere. We're not going anywhere.

Christian Brim (40:10.626)
I'm not advising that I'm not promoting that. No, no, because you're always going to have people that disagree. you know, I mean, back to the business point, like, yeah, you're going to have disagreements with partners, vendors, customers, whatever. And, you know, I think being thoughtful.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (40:17.943)
Thank

Christian Brim (40:38.57)
about the other person's motivations, right? So, you know, I see this in business a lot where they form partnerships and they're not, you know, it's usually because, well, I'm good at this and you're good at that. And so like together we'll be better than, you know, us separately, right? But they don't work through the mechanics of what that looks like if it doesn't work out. And, you know, that...

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (40:56.214)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (41:03.223)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (41:06.654)
It's kind of like a prenuptial, like you need to have thought those things through, but people oftentimes don't. And that applies not just to partners, but to any business relationship you have of like, okay, if this doesn't work the way I expected, what are the ramifications? What are the potential liabilities and how do I mitigate those?

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (41:08.906)
Exactly.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (41:33.239)
Correct. Perfectly said, business partnerships are no different than a personal relationship, whether it's engagement, marriage, or you're starting to date somebody.

Christian Brim (41:50.036)
My lawyer would beg to differ with you. He said business partnerships are like marriage without the sex. So it's worse.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (41:56.769)
Yeah

Hey, you're in the wrong business. You're in the wrong business. So yeah, and we need to approach it like that. And a lot of people, when you talk about entering relationships where one has assets, the other one has, let's say they both have assets, one has more than the other, or they're different assets, et cetera, whether it's money or real estate or possessions and ideas, those kinds of things, those are assets too.

if we get into a personal relationship, go, know, he or she is going to think I don't trust them if I ask them to, you know, let's talk about what happens if we have to go our separate ways or I've asked that question, you know, we should talk about what's going to happen if we have to go our separate ways in business. And the other person says, you know, they get mad or they get offended or they go, what, you don't trust me or no, it's never going to happen. And so they just call your fears and.

keep it calm for the moment until you forget about it. That's a red flag. It's a red flag if someone is not willing to discuss the potentiality, right? Because money changes people, fame changes people, opportunity changes people. I've been through that and I'm a lawyer. Not only with my law partners did that happen to me, but also my...

Christian Brim (43:02.263)
Absolutely.

Christian Brim (43:09.389)
Right.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (43:25.931)
build businesses outside of my law practice, things change, right? Everybody's happy in the beginning, you're on a honeymoon and you're hugging and holding hands and singing kumbaya, but then somebody's wife says, hey, Bob, I need you to make more money. And all of a sudden you think, or that partner comes in and says, I need to make more money, you're out. Or I want it to come from you or any number of dynamics.

Christian Brim (43:51.892)
Or, or, or my, or my favorite is, well, that, that partner gets a divorce and right. And now you're dragging the spouse into the equation. And it's like, I didn't sign up to be partner with that spouse. Like, you know,

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (43:58.284)
Yeah.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (44:07.027)
Exactly. But if you don't have a spousal waiver in your partnership agreement where both spouses or all spouses involved have signed a waiver agreement that they will not claim or even suggest that they have any ownership in this particular business that you've built, they have a right to the income depending on what community property laws, if any exist where you reside, they may have a right to

Christian Brim (44:29.112)
Yes.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (44:37.003)
the things that you, the benefits that you derive from that business, from that partnership, but they cannot then go in and claim a right to that partnership if you've... In test date, yeah.

Christian Brim (44:46.35)
Or if they die and then that passes to them, you know, and test and test eight and then like, yeah. And then like, shit, I got a new partner.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (44:54.699)
Yeah, exactly. And he or she wants to do this, this, that, or the other. They want to the business. Yeah, so there's just so many things involved these days, especially. And the internet laws is no different. I do get questions on the internet scope of things. And where we're going with AI, that's the big thing now, right? It's the usage of AI. Yeah, it's part of the process.

Christian Brim (44:58.861)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (45:18.786)
So do you do, do you do property? Do you do intellectual property stuff or no?

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (45:24.373)
Yeah, because when you represent a client, especially creatives, right, creatives, what do they have? They have money, they have creative assets, right, all the intellectual property, they may have real estate, they may have divorce issues, and so as an entertainment lawyer, you're dealing with all that stuff, right? You may not necessarily transact everything, you may farm it out to a real estate specialist, a divorce specialist, etc. But you're initially dealing with all those questions that a client has for you.

Christian Brim (45:41.357)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (45:54.574)
Steve, I know you're not taking any clients, but if someone wanted to find out more about you and your non-legal work, how would they find

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (46:03.575)
Thank you, Christian, for that opportunity and for that open door. What I would suggest to people, first of all, if you want to get a hold of me, contact Mr. Christian Broom. Let him know, hey, I saw this Steve guy, whatever his name is on your show, and you can put me in touch with him, right? Steve Iglesias, yes, yes. And you can put me in touch with him, right? And so you can become Christian's best friend by doing that.

Christian Brim (46:19.574)
Iglesias, Steve Iglesias, Steve Iglesias, yes.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (46:32.509)
And also thank Christian for producing the show, right, for introducing us and for all of the amazing guests that Christian has had on the show previously and will bring to you in the future. producing a show like this, I know, is not easy. takes time, attention, effort, resources. And, you know, he's doing this for you as well as for himself because he wants to be on the cover of GQ magazine. So GQ magazine, if you're listening, reach out to Christian Brim because he's your next cover artist.

Christian Brim (46:32.686)
I would love that.

Christian Brim (46:56.206)
True. Yes.

Yes. Yes.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (47:02.615)
So, and if you can't get ahold of Christian because he's too busy fielding other people's phone calls and emails trying to hold a of Steve, you can find me on the internet. I'm on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram at StevieGsuccess.com. And you can also go to my website, StevieGsuccess.com. And if you go to the resources page, you don't have to sign up or anything, no emails or, you know, you can send me peanut butter cookies if you want, because I love homemade peanut butter cookies.

Christian Brim (47:08.227)
Possible.

Steve Gallegos, Esq. (47:33.295)
Go to the resources page where I have a lot of free content that you can easily download, audios to listen to, and just stuff to make your day better, because that's what I'm here to do.

Christian Brim (47:44.782)
I love it. Listeners will have those links in the show notes. If you like what you heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. If you don't like what you've heard, shoot us a suggestion and I'll get rid of Steve. Until then, ta ta for now.