How Do You Use Storytelling to Grow a Creative Business? | Annie Figenshu

PROFITABLE TALKS...

In this episode of The Profitable Creative, host Christian Brim speaks with Annie Figenshu, founder of Downstage Media. They discuss Annie's journey from performing arts to marketing, the importance of storytelling and community in content creation, and the balance between content, relationships, and revenue generation. Annie shares insights on understanding audience needs, the role of empathy in marketing, and the significance of transitioning from niche markets to broader opportunities. The conversation emphasizes the need for creatives to focus on problem-solving and revenue generation while maintaining authenticity in their work.

PROFITABLE TAKEAWAYS...

• Annie Figenshu emphasizes the importance of understanding audience needs.
• Content creation should focus on solving problems for the audience.
• Building relationships is crucial for effective marketing.
• Revenue generation should be a priority for creatives.
• Storytelling is a powerful tool in marketing and content creation.
• Empathy plays a key role in connecting with the audience.
• Transitioning from a niche market can open new opportunities.
• Community engagement enhances content discoverability.
• Balancing content, relationships, and revenue is essential for success.
• Diligence in marketing activities leads to better results.

Join our community of creative entrepreneurs and get a free copy of our No-BS Guide To Making Your Creative Business Actually Profitable delivered straight to your inbox. We’ll share smart, simple tips to help you keep more of what you earn—no boring accountant talk, we promise.  
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Transcript

Christian Brim (00:02.214)
Welcome to another episode of the profitable creative the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host Christian Brim special shout out to our one listener and Hollis holidays Berg Pennsylvania. If I can get that out. I don't I mean that sounds like a lovely place holidays Berg. Uh-huh. Yeah strange name. I'd hate to have to spell it as a kindergartner in any case. Thank you for listening.

Annie Figenshu (00:23.202)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (00:30.014)
Our guest today is any fig and chew of downstage media and he walked into the show

Annie Figenshu (00:37.038)
Christian, thank you so much. And I wanna also shout out the listener in Hollidaysburg, Pennsylvania.

Christian Brim (00:44.574)
Yeah, I mean, I kind of envision they're in a coffee shop somewhere, and I don't know what episode they listen to, what the appetites are in the holidays, Berg, Pennsylvania. I don't know. I know what it is. I did have a German photographer on Janiton Schleichberg, and that was probably who they listened to because, know, yeah, that's just my guess. All right.

Annie Figenshu (01:10.904)
Sure.

Christian Brim (01:13.598)
Shut me up and give the audience your CV. Tell us who you are, what you've done. Because you told me a little in the green room and now I want to share.

Annie Figenshu (01:23.544)
Sure, well, I started the company Downstage Media and that I started because I know a lot of people are creating so much content and they spend a lot of time making it and they don't know whether or not it's actually working for them. So I sit down, I give them some strategy, we talk through it and we figure out how they can actually get their content to move the needle on their business.

But I kind of came out that from a different direction. I got into, right, exactly. Not upstage, but downstage, right. So downstage, if you are a theater nerd, then you know that is when you are closest to the audience. I started downstage media. Well, I started marketing. I had been performing. So I had been an improv comic in New York City.

Christian Brim (01:57.247)
Downstage. Downstage, yes.

Christian Brim (02:18.632)
Yeah.

Annie Figenshu (02:21.206)
I would do upwards of five shows a week with companies like Chicago City Limits and Broadway's Next Hit Musical. And we would make up songs on the spot and we would make up shows on the spot. And one thing that I always found really problematic was that one of the companies that I worked for had the policy where if there was more people on stage than in the audience, they would cancel the show.

and we had five people on stage. And the amount of times the show got canceled, which means that there was less than five people in the audience.

Christian Brim (02:54.363)
Okay.

Christian Brim (03:00.156)
Are we including waitstaff?

Annie Figenshu (03:02.338)
Thank you. Those are the kinds of questions that they would ask. And I was like, guys, if we're at if we're getting this specific, we clearly don't have enough audience. Right. But the

Christian Brim (03:10.332)
Yes, I would agree. If you're counting the busboy, you've missed the mark.

Annie Figenshu (03:15.348)
Right, exactly. So at the time, this was in the early 2000s and based in New York in New York City. If you wanted to let people know about your show, you had to buy an ad on a radio station or buy a billboard in the most expensive media market in the entire country. And so we were doing a corporate gig. A lot of times you will get hired from companies to like.

to help their salespeople get off their scripts so they would hire improvisers to help teach them. And we were doing this one gig and the person before us was talking about this new thing called Twitter and how companies were using it to connect with their customers. And I looked around at some of my fellow actors and I said, I think we can use this to get more people to our show. And so at nighttime and nap time, cause I had two little girls.

I would figure out marketing. Like I just, wanted to know more. First it was social media marketing, then it was marketing in general. And that's how I got into marketing. Initially I was freelancing, then I launched Downstage Media when both of my kids were in school full-time. And shortly thereafter, I read the book, Building a Story Brand written by Donald Miller. And that book is all, it's a great book, right?

Christian Brim (04:38.59)
Great book.

Annie Figenshu (04:42.294)
Yeah, it's all about using story structure. It's the same story structure that we learned as improvisers to make up stories on the spot, to make up musicals on the spot. It was the same story structure was just for marketers. So I was like, I can definitely this makes sense to me. And I know it's going to make sense to a lot of the companies in the performing arts that I work with on their marketing. And then I realized that I wanted to take those same principles, but just branch out, because once the pandemic hit,

there wasn't as many, obviously the performing arts weren't around, their budgets weren't around. It really decimated the industry for a while. So I thought, I bet I could still use these same, the same premise for different companies in different niches. And that's kind of where I am today, which is that I use a lot of storytelling principles, a lot of theatricality.

in what I recommend people do when they are creating content and really think about their audience and what their audience wants and figure out ways to connect you to your audience.

Christian Brim (05:52.371)
That sounds very intriguing. So who have you landed on if the performing arts is no longer your focus? Who do you focus on?

Annie Figenshu (06:00.982)
Yeah. I work with a lot strangely in the past few years. I worked with a lot of companies that are leadership and development companies, culture companies. They'll go in and they will help the leadership team become better leaders to then lead. Oftentimes, though, it's companies that have one main thought leader. They're a thought leader. They're a keynote speaker.

and they go out there and they make a ton of content. They're great on stage. They love making video content and they love making email content. Like they could put out content all day long, but usually they have someone else on their marketing team who's a little bit burnout. And so I work with both of them. So that way the company itself can either get more consulting gigs or the keynote speaker can get more speaking gigs. That's

oftentimes who I work with.

Christian Brim (07:00.178)
funny I thought you were gonna say dentists but that makes more sense no I didn't think you were gonna say dentists okay so I I have this nascent theory running around in my head around content and I'm gonna share it with you and I get your feedback

Annie Figenshu (07:02.766)
Right, yeah.

Annie Figenshu (07:18.254)
Mmm.

Annie Figenshu (07:22.19)
First of all, I love that you use the word nascent. It's a great word.

Christian Brim (07:24.592)
Not a word. Yes, it is. And the five people that regularly listen to the show will probably say, yes, they're probably going to say, shut up, Christian, you're talking about this too much. But it's my show, so I can. The conversations I've had over the last few weeks have led me to this insight.

Annie Figenshu (07:34.968)
Shout out to our friend in Hollidaysburg, Pennsylvania.

Annie Figenshu (07:44.654)
Hmm

Christian Brim (07:54.271)
You have now and this is pre LLMs. Okay, so this goes back really to Spotify and the whole long tail Idea that the cost of cost of content production In whether it's visual audio Written word doesn't matter has essentially dropped to zero. It doesn't cost you you can you can

Put together a book and get it published on Amazon in the morning, right? So the the Cost is nothing so it attracts All the do-it-yourselfers all of the What what you know people call AI slop There's just a tremendous amount of content out there and as a marketer you'd agree getting

that content in front of the right people is becoming increasingly more difficult because of the noise. Yeah. So what I postulate, there's another 10 cent word for you, that the thing that's missing is the human and the human curation and the human curation vis-a-vis community. So.

Annie Figenshu (09:19.245)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (09:20.83)
was listening to a speaker, recently from mighty networks. And they said that the online learning platform content, is already in decline. Like that's their business. And they say, this is on the decline and their pivot is to lean into the communities where the content is not solely coming from.

the head of that community or the thought leader, whatever, it's also coming from the community. And so it has this dual purpose of engaging the community, solidifying the community, but it also takes the onus off of the one person to create all the content and it becomes a communal effort. What do you...

Speak to that.

Annie Figenshu (10:22.254)
Okay, so if I'm hearing right, the question is, should we be going away from thought leadership content and instead leaning in to communities and fostering communities where people can speak to one another versus us speaking to many? Okay.

Christian Brim (10:22.993)
if you will.

Christian Brim (10:38.254)
I don't think it's an either or. think it's a progression. mean, know, the people that attract large audiences, you know, in whatever the format. Joe Rogan, for instance, in the audio video, he's going to attract his people, right?

But the long tail has all of these niches beneath it that are uber specific and you've had thought leaders, right? But I think the discoverability of the content could be aided by the human curation. So it's like, this is worth Annie's time. This is worth the investment of her energy.

Annie Figenshu (11:26.306)
Yes.

Christian Brim (11:34.696)
as opposed to just abdicating it to the algorithm.

Annie Figenshu (11:38.829)
Yes, yes, okay. So it's interesting that you say this because given the overall idea of this podcast itself, that's a big part of how I spend almost every day. So let me explain is I think content is a big part of it. What has really helped me, especially in the last year and it's worked so well that I'm continuing it into 2026 is making sure that more often than not,

So around three days a week in a work week that I will do each of these three things, or I will spend at least a half hour's time in these three areas. One area is content. I definitely want to make sure that if people are looking to vet me, they can find me and my thoughts and my ideas and how I handle things. I do a lot of consulting. So I want people to have a sense of what my vibe is before.

they actually schedule a call with me, right? So content I work on, of course, that's what I do all day long for clients and everything. Like that's my topic that I really have focused on. But another part of that is what I call relationship building activities. So making sure that I am fostering relationships with other people because I do find that it is so valuable to make sure that I have them. So that might mean

Christian Brim (12:37.906)
Mm-hmm.

Annie Figenshu (13:04.77)
having a one-to-one conversation with someone in a community that I'm already in. Maybe, so I'm a MailChimp pro partner, right? So MailChimp has a Slack channel that's purely for their partners and their pro partners. And so maybe I'm gonna spend a half hour on that. I also run something called the Marketing Algonquin in my, so I live in New Jersey and I get a bunch of local marketers together once a quarter.

and we sit down and we have a meal together, just like they used to do with the Algonquin round tables 100 years ago, or the Algonquin round table 100 years ago. And we just talk shop, right? But I cap it to eight people. I specifically keep it small and I make sure that we're able to really talk about ideas. So there's a lot of different ways that I do those relationship building activities, but I find that when I do them, they work very well in conjunction

with the content, right? It helps inform the content that I'm creating. It helps that content get in front of more people because people who I'm interacting with are commenting and sharing and engaging with it. So I find that those two things work very well together. Do you want to know the third? Because I haven't talked about the third.

Christian Brim (14:03.869)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (14:21.766)
I wasn't counting, but now that you mention it, yes.

Annie Figenshu (14:24.534)
Okay, so the third is then money making activities. All of this stuff doesn't do you any good if you are not finding leads, following up with leads, putting together proposals, having sales conversations, having second sales conversations, doing the stuff that's actually going to bring in revenue. So when I focus on those three things, I find that my revenue goes up.

Christian Brim (14:50.12)
So you said, I mean, were those activities that you weren't focusing on prior?

Annie Figenshu (14:55.598)
I wasn't focusing on them diligently. I wasn't keeping, so I then started keeping track of them, right? Like when I would do it just sort of the way that people keep track of when they work out, like, oh yeah, I worked out today. I would just do it. So if I spent a half hour on money-making activities, then I would give myself a little check. And if I did that with relationship building activities, I would do the same thing. And I just started marking it down.

Whereas before maybe I would think, okay, yeah, well, I wrote this blog post. It took me three hours to write it. I'm good now. I don't need to make any content for another few weeks. But I have found that being diligent about it is more helpful for me. But I would give myself a hard time if I was trying to do it every day and I didn't. And then I'd be like, I would feel bad and I'd let myself down. So then I started being a little bit gentler with myself.

and had the ethos of more often than not.

Christian Brim (15:53.759)
I like more often than not. it's, it's, yes, there's a lot to unpack in that last sentence. I think, I think it is easy to discourage yourself. I also think it's difficult to do things systemically to move the needle. Yeah. We, we tend to gravitate to what we enjoy.

or what is comfortable, not necessarily the things that we need to be doing.

Annie Figenshu (16:32.968)
And if you are a person who is very driven, like a people pleaser, which I totally am, I was just talking to a Broadway performer who has created a course about how to, like sort of the business of the business, right?

And so he is trying to get that course in front of more people and get more people in his email list and all that kind of stuff. So we're talking through that strategy and he would, lot of places were interested and they would say, Hey, can you lead a workshop on this? Can you do a 60 minute or a 90 minute workshop on it? We're not going to pay you, but would you do it? And

He was like, yeah, this is great. Like I love it. I wanna get my work out there. I want more people to know about it. But I finally had to say to him, look, you've been doing that for a while now. You know the content is tested. You know audiences are interested in it. They consistently show up at these workshops. They consistently will take your free one-on-ones that you offer. We gotta start monetizing now. But it feels good for people to say, hey,

We're gonna, we're gonna bring you in for this. That feels good. But it's not necessarily going to help your business. So it's not just what we like doing, but it could also be like what, what feels good and what can kind of feed our egos.

Christian Brim (18:04.67)
100 % and you will find people that will suck all the time energy and life out of you if you don't set up those those guardrails 100 % you know I this is kind of nasty but not nasty that way but it is okay so

Annie Figenshu (18:25.134)
Let's get into it. No, I just thought like,

Christian Brim (18:31.294)
you know, I'm a CPA and I got real tired, when I'd introduce myself because, know, it's like you put a slap on a pocket protector automatically, when you say I'm a CPA and that like, have this idea of what you are, right? The label that comes with it. And, so, you know, to discourage that behavior,

Because then the follow-up question was, you know, I got this situation, you know, what should I do? What do I do? You know, taxes, blah, blah, blah. I started intentionally giving them wrong answers. Yeah, isn't that kind of nasty? it is. And I do it in such a ludicrous way that it was clear. Like, I'm not giving you misinformation that you might misuse. I'm like, you know, here's my favorite. Here's my favorite.

Annie Figenshu (19:15.553)
Okay.

Christian Brim (19:25.95)
And we actually had this we had one of our leadership to meeting team meetings that I wish we'd recorded it because we went and riffed on this for about five minutes and it we were all in stitches afterwards so like one of the one of the Ubiquitous questions that we get is you know some variation of can I write off my pet for taxes and We we just went through the whole absurdity of it

of like, well, no, but what you need to do is you need to set up a corporation and make the dog an employee. And then like it's all these fringe benefits, but maybe we need to get a trust involved. Like you just, the absurdity of it, right? I don't know where I was going with that, but I shared the story.

Annie Figenshu (19:59.908)
Sure.

Annie Figenshu (20:07.874)
Yes.

Annie Figenshu (20:13.464)
Well, so it sounds to me like as a CPA, a lot of people are asking you questions and trying to get your expertise without paying you for it. yeah, and that can feel really good. so having those half hour calls, because you get to be the smartest person in the room. And that feels good, but it doesn't, it doesn't help you with your revenue. Per se.

Christian Brim (20:22.664)
For fruit. Yes.

Christian Brim (20:30.384)
Mars guy in the room, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Christian Brim (20:36.664)
No, and creatives, I think creatives are susceptible to that more so than not, especially earlier on in their business journey because they really like that validation of like what you do is important and what you do is cool and yeah. Okay. So.

Annie Figenshu (20:52.835)
Yes.

Annie Figenshu (21:00.046)
Yeah, it's basically clap for me, right? Like that's, that's what I've been in a lot of, a lot of people ask me like, do you miss performing? Right. And I've been in a lot of therapy since then. Like I no longer need to have, I no longer need to have a couple of hundred people clap for me at the end of every night or when I, I was, or five or six or a half dozen.

Christian Brim (21:03.324)
Yes. Yes.

Christian Brim (21:20.19)
five or six, whatever.

Annie Figenshu (21:23.38)
I don't need that anymore, but I did for a while and I could see how it would influence a lot of the choices that I made. And so, but that's the thing is that I, it was, it's doing those three tasks regularly, systemically, like you were saying, like just, this is what I do. Right? Like when I was writing my book, simple social media, I just thought, this is what I do. I write every morning from six to seven. This is what I do. And then it just, and those.

Christian Brim (21:30.726)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (21:42.238)
Mm-hmm.

Annie Figenshu (21:52.565)
bricks that you add, just they, you stack them up and then it actually helps you build something. And I wouldn't be saying this if I hadn't seen how it worked for an entire year.

Christian Brim (22:07.004)
Yes, because it's easy, especially if you are trying to please people and or looking for validation. It's very easy to be very busy and not make any money. It's like that's a well-worn groove. You'll slide right into that very easily. It takes effort to be intentional about being profitable.

Annie Figenshu (22:20.088)
Yes.

Christian Brim (22:36.626)
Yeah, I talk, the second chapter in my book is all about money mindset and it speaks to, you know, all of the garbage that we come to the business with, not just money beliefs, but the beliefs like you're discussing of validation and confirmation and affirmation that drive our decisions and our business.

And if you're not intentional about I have to make money at this thing, that is that is the reason why I'm in business. Now that's you know, some people say, well, isn't that obvious? It is, but it's very easy to get your eyes just off the ball, right? It's very easy to get distracted and forget like I'm doing this to make money not to make somebody else happy or not to be busy.

Annie Figenshu (23:30.83)
Right. Yeah, I think especially when that a lot of those lessons became very clear to me. Also last year I was going through a divorce and so then it was getting used to the idea that I was the head of the household then. Right. And so whereas before if I had a slow quarter

Christian Brim (23:50.76)
Hmm.

Annie Figenshu (23:56.547)
but my husband didn't then like, you we would sort of balance each other out or sometimes we were both good, you know, but all of sudden it was like, the cavalry's not coming. So like, this is it, this is it. So you've got to figure this out. This is no joke. And that's when I was just, and I just thought I was like, what are the things that helped me? How do they all work together? Content, relationship building activities, moneymaking activities. They all help one another. If I can be very diligent about that.

Christian Brim (24:03.752)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Annie Figenshu (24:26.766)
then this would be something that I can get through. And my divorce cost over $75,000. I made sure that I ended the year divorced and debt-free. So why are you, making a face, Christian.

Christian Brim (24:41.298)
Well, I'm reminded of the joke that my brother said, but I have to give you context. my, my next younger brother, made the joke of, know, why divorces are so expensive because they're worth it. and, the, joke is, he's still married. he's been no, he's only been married once, but

Annie Figenshu (25:04.878)
To his third wife.

Christian Brim (25:11.006)
He doesn't he hasn't lived with his wife for over 10 years And he's living with his girlfriend, but he's not even sleeping with her anymore. It's it's a it's a mess that's that That's kind of the joke is that he he made that joke but then never ended up actually getting divorced even though he Yeah, in any case, I'm sorry Josh if you're listening Yeah, is it is

Annie Figenshu (25:23.788)
Wow, we're getting into it today.

Annie Figenshu (25:36.344)
Sure. Sorry, Josh. It's complicated.

Christian Brim (25:40.615)
it is rather. Okay, so I want to I want to go back to something you said in the green room, you talked about pivoting away from performing arts because of the need for scale. So let's dive into that a little more. What was the thought process there?

Annie Figenshu (26:00.845)
Yes, so initially, downstage media was social media for the performing arts. That was the idea. That's what I focused on. And I had different services that I was offering at a low price point because I wanted to make sure that it was palatable for artists, that they could afford it, that they would be able to handle the price. But I realized that there was only so far that I could cut

Christian Brim (26:06.557)
Mm-hmm.

Annie Figenshu (26:30.414)
kind of get with that. I I started with the performing arts because that was the world that I knew. So that made a lot of sense, but I just felt like the price point on this thing that I wanted to offer, let's say it's $300. I don't remember what it was at the time, but.

Christian Brim (26:49.051)
Let's say you want to say it together.

Annie Figenshu (26:52.494)
Sure. $300. Yeah. Oh, for crying out loud. Okay. One, two, $300. Yeah. So, but anyway, but I realized that like, but wait, but if I want to be making this amount of money for the year, and then I break that down by quarter, and then I was like, wait a second. And when I look at the amount of people who are on my email list, and then they actually open the emails that I send,

Christian Brim (26:53.694)
$300. You missed it. No, we'll say it together. $300. Okay, we said it. Okay, go ahead.

Christian Brim (27:17.31)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Annie Figenshu (27:22.028)
and then they actually buy this thing, I'm gonna need to do way more scale at that price point. So I thought, hmm, I don't know if this is the niche for me anymore. I understood it was important to have a niche. So I was really proud that I had one, but there's a difference between having a niche and having a viable niche. And one that is willing to pay you the money that you want to make.

Christian Brim (27:27.228)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (27:43.998)
Mmm.

Annie Figenshu (27:49.327)
in order to either make ends meet or hit your goals or whatever it is. So that's when I decided that, oh, I don't have to just stay in the performing arts, which is good because right now with the pandemic, that's tricky. I can be taught, I had a woman who I had met in my town who was the editor in chief of a national magazine. And she had written a book and she knew that her days were numbered at the magazine. And she said,

I know I'm not in the performing arts, but will you still work with me anyway?" And that's when I said, yes, yes, I will. I'm happy to accept your money. And I realized, I can do the same stuff. I can teach the same ideas. I can still use these same theories that I use. It doesn't have to be that group of people.

Christian Brim (28:22.799)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (28:27.859)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (28:43.358)
Yes, and...

Annie Figenshu (28:46.894)
Christian Brim (28:47.062)
and yes, and I think that that you what you you had you just really kind of hit it on the head of of a very important point that

We we think of our businesses often in terms of what we do right and I think the Way to build a business that is sustainable and profitable has to flip that into What problem do you solve? Because what you described is very true. You could take What you do and how you do it and help?

Annie Figenshu (29:23.534)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (29:31.845)
a whole bunch of different types of people, right? But the way they perceive the problem, the way they describe the problem, the way they experience the problem is different. And I made the joke about dentists like the way they perceive their marketing problem, their pain points, whatever, is going to be markedly different than a performing artist. Right. So

It's not necessarily changing what you do or even how you do it. It's putting yourself in the shoes of the person for whom you're solving the problem.

Annie Figenshu (30:12.672)
Exactly. It's putting the focus on your, whoever your audience is. In fact, I talk about this a lot when I'm guiding people through how they want to show up in their content. And I'll oftentimes say, just switch, I mean, everybody's talking about pronouns, but just switch the pronouns from I, from all this first person to second person, to you. So instead of, I'm going to teach you, it's you will learn.

Christian Brim (30:18.524)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (30:36.595)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (30:42.928)
Mm-hmm.

Annie Figenshu (30:43.094)
right? And it's that adjustment that you start making, which then all of a sudden the paradigm shifts and you realize, I am writing this for other people. It's not just for myself.

Christian Brim (31:00.446)
My head of revenue gave me a book last week. I haven't finished it. I don't remember the author's name. But the book is called Stories That Stick. If you've read it. But she brilliantly and I think she did reference Donald Miller in or Save the Cat or one of those stories, books that's out there.

Annie Figenshu (31:13.582)
Mm-hmm.

Annie Figenshu (31:27.928)
Sure.

Christian Brim (31:30.098)
She didn't mention that in hers, but she's strictly coming from a story, stories that businesses need to tell. But her background was advertising and she uses the traditional video advertising as her canvas to demonstrate the differences.

It's a great reminder because here's the thing, if you're a professional, if you consider yourself a professional and what you do as a service, usually you lead with like your expertise and your experience and like why I'm so good and here are my features and benefits, right? But that is absolutely not engaging. You know, I was coaching our salesperson.

Our account executive, he's And, yes, Murray, you got a shout out. he, he and I were talking about a couple of his calls, sales calls. And I, I said, here's the thing you're, you're, you're talking a lot about the solution. Replace it with a story, a client story of transformation.

Annie Figenshu (32:34.104)
Shout out to the new guy.

Christian Brim (32:59.548)
Because, you know, and he sat and he contemplated that for a second. He said, I'm, I'm talking about the trip, not the destination. said, bingo, you want more toes in the sand and drink in hand with a little umbrella, rather than talking about the journey on the airline and the airport and all the Uber rides and that nobody wants to hear that. Like that's that that part's not fun. Right.

Is that similar to what you're talking about here?

Annie Figenshu (33:34.605)
Yes, it's just that those stories I find helpful in content that you are putting out. But I find that it's important to couch it though and remember that there is a story that you want to tell where your audience is the hero and they go on the journey. So they have a problem.

Christian Brim (33:42.109)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (33:55.292)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Annie Figenshu (34:01.027)
You know, they know what they want. They know what's getting in the way. They know how that problem is making them feel all of that stuff. And then eventually once they start working with you or once they experience your product or once they have your service, then they're able to solve that problem and become the person that they've always wanted to be. Right. Like that's a lot of what I had learned in Donald Miller's work. And so then I I've been certified in Storybrand since I don't know, 2021 and I

Christian Brim (34:20.552)
Mm-hmm.

Annie Figenshu (34:30.688)
meet with him regularly and he's been a mentor of mine.

Christian Brim (34:35.262)
Will you help me get him on the show? I've tried two different contexts. I can't get him on the show. So, all right. You can ask, that's all you can do. I figure if he hears my name and the podcast name from enough different people. had Mike McAlewitz, the author of Profit First, reach out to him. Cause he had, Mike had him on a podcast. In any case, I'm getting off track. Go back, sorry.

Annie Figenshu (34:41.08)
Sure, can do my best, yes? I can ask.

Annie Figenshu (35:00.172)
Yeah, so I think that that's also an important story too. So there's a story where your company is the hero, right? And sort of like, is one time that we realized that we failed and we've learned so much from that. And here's another time where we, here's why we decided to get started. Here's why we were renewed with our vigor for why we need to work with people who are just like you. Fine, those are important, engaging stories. You're right. They were great on social. They were great in emails.

Also, you want to make sure though that you are having your audience be the main character of the story many times. Again, more often than not, right? So when you're putting out, when you don't have some of those stories in your content and maybe it's general just showing that you understand what people are going through and you know how to fix it, you've got that empathy and that authority, really make it about

your audience and what they are going through.

Christian Brim (36:00.795)
Yeah, I was talking to a client several months ago. He's a videographer in the Boston area and he works primarily on documentaries. And I was kind of working through him with him on this and I'm like, okay, why do people hire you as opposed to all the other videographers in the Boston area? Right. And he kept, you know, relating what he thought. And I kept asking questions to clarify and

Finally, you I found this gem of like, okay, you're the you're the organized one. Like I know independent producers and they're usually just complete shit shows. I'm sorry, guys. They're not organized. They're uber creative, right? And like, you know, just getting everybody to the set on time with the right equipment is a challenge, right? And I said, that's what you do. That's what that's that's why they hire you, right?

And I think that's how you get to the story, right? Like you have to delve into who you're working with and what problem you're actually solving to understand the story to tell. Because it started very generic when he said why they hired him. But as we kept diving into it, he just had this like, I hadn't really thought about that. like, go back and ask. Like, I think this is why you...

hire me is that is that right?

Annie Figenshu (37:30.466)
Right, exactly, yeah. And you could start putting that out in your content more. So many videographers that you wanna work with don't invoice you on time. They don't get you the receipts that you need. They flake out. They don't have the time, right? And then it's starting with that hook of that problem. And I get it. That's frustrating. That's annoying. And so what we offer is we make sure that this is gonna happen and this is gonna happen and this is gonna happen.

Christian Brim (37:49.246)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Annie Figenshu (37:57.954)
So that way you don't have to worry about me. You can focus on what's happening on set.

Christian Brim (38:01.529)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (38:05.806)
I feel like that we could continue because we haven't even really got into the comedy. I haven't mentioned my favorite comedies such as Monty Python, Airplane, any Mel Brooks movie. But unfortunately, our time is at an end. How do people find downstage media and learn more about you,

Annie Figenshu (38:12.248)
You

Annie Figenshu (38:29.42)
The best way is to go to downstage.media and I highly recommend you go to downstage.media slash blog. write every two weeks, I have a new article out and it's a lot of these points of view on content, on how you can get your content out sustainably. You could subscribe to that and I'll just send you the next post in your inbox just to make life a little bit easier for you. So downstage.media slash blog.

and subscribe to the blog.

Christian Brim (39:00.742)
Listeners will have those links in the show notes. If you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. If you don't like what you've heard, shoot us a message and tell us what you'd like to hear and I'll get rid of any.

Annie Figenshu (39:15.077)
my god, you're totally gonna hear it from your brother on this. He's gonna be like, I didn't like what I heard.

Christian Brim (39:17.118)
I wish he wouldn't listen to this. Until next time, folks. Ta-ta for now.

Annie Figenshu (39:25.007)
Bye, thank you.