Creating Community Through Pickleball | Evan Kuterbach

PROFITABLE TALKS...

In this episode, Christian Brim interviews Evan Kuterbach, the founder of Canyon Pickleball, who shares his journey from a corporate career to entrepreneurship. Evan discusses the inspiration behind his business, the challenges he faced, and the importance of inclusivity in the pickleball community. He emphasizes the need for vulnerability in business partnerships and the lessons learned about money management. The conversation highlights the entrepreneurial mindset of seeing opportunities and solving problems, as well as the significance of defining success on personal terms.

PROFITABLE TAKEAWAYS...

• Evan's entrepreneurial journey began after the birth of his daughter.
• Canyon Pickleball focuses on inclusivity and community.
• The business model is e-commerce, selling pickleball paddles and apparel.
• Evan emphasizes the importance of vulnerability in business partnerships.
• Success is defined by personal values, not just financial metrics.
• The importance of understanding skills and outsourcing in business.
• Inclusivity is a core value of the Canyon Pickleball brand.
• Evan learned about money management post-college.
• The entrepreneurial mindset involves seeing opportunities beyond skill sets.
• Building a brand identity requires a clear mission and values.

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Transcript

Christian Brim (00:01.525)
Welcome to another episode of the profitable creative, the only place on the internet where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Joining me today is Evan Kutterbach of Canyon Pickleball. Evan, welcome.

Evan Kuterbach (00:22.766)
Thanks for having me, Christian. Excited to be here.

Christian Brim (00:26.112)
Some people may say, okay, what does pickleball have to do with creative entrepreneurs? And I can't think of anything more interesting than your story as I read it in your biography. So why don't you tell the listeners, get us caught up on what brought Evan here.

Evan Kuterbach (00:44.952)
Sure. So Canyon Pickleball has been really kind of the brainchild. I honestly would like to say over the last 13 years of my professional existence, but it's really only begun over the last six months. I've always kind of had that entrepreneurial bug. I've always been interested in starting my own business. I went kind of the more traditional route, went to college, got a good job, stayed in kind of a traditional eight to five up until about a year and a half ago.

Christian Brim (00:46.741)
Thank

Christian Brim (01:02.998)
Mm-hmm.

Evan Kuterbach (01:14.862)
So a little over 10 years in the corporate world But I was never really scratching that itch, know I'm sure a lot of your listeners have felt that same feeling and wasn't really sure what I could give my all to what I could give you know a lot of energy towards and When my daughter was born almost two years ago. I I knew it was kind of like a switch changed in my brain, you know that I wanted to be there more for her be there more for my family and Yeah, the wheels just started spinning. So

That is kind of the start of my entrepreneurial journey was when my daughter was born.

Christian Brim (01:49.26)
So.

Apologies, I'm caught up on peanut &Ms. I can't get enough of them. Okay, so what did you do in the corporate world?

Evan Kuterbach (01:53.88)
No, it's okay.

Evan Kuterbach (02:05.282)
Yeah, so my 10 plus years was in client facing sales roles. So I worked for some startups. I worked for big corporations doing tech sales, software sales, hardware. I started my career right out of college in the sports industry. So I was actually selling like season ticket group packages, suites, all that kind of stuff. So, you you name it, I probably sold it over the course of 10 plus years.

Christian Brim (02:32.555)
That's probably the number one skill as an entrepreneur that you need is to sell. So what drew you to Pickle?

Evan Kuterbach (02:38.318)
Agreed.

Evan Kuterbach (02:42.818)
Yeah, so right before I moved halfway across the country, I was living in Colorado. One of my best friends told me about this game called Pickleball. I didn't really know much about it, but I was looking for something. You know, it's historically been an older person's game. It's funny, the average age of the pickleball player in the US now is in the 30s, but it used to be much higher because of the growth we've seen.

Christian Brim (02:54.655)
It's an old, it's an old person's game, right?

Christian Brim (03:06.495)
Wow.

Evan Kuterbach (03:10.146)
Before I moved to where I'm at now, which is Orlando, Florida, I was, you know, getting into pickleball from a buddy of mine. told me to try it out. when I moved to Florida, I knew no one. had probably maybe two friends. you know, it's just me, my wife, at the time, a very pregnant wife, and we were expecting our daughter and I was looking for something to do. was looking for, you know, a way to meet people. And so I remembered that, Hey, I just learned pickleball about a month before moving.

and was like, you know what, I'll just go see what it's about. I was in kind of a dark place of not really knowing many people and just started getting out to the courts and quickly, like a lot of people, maybe some of your listeners, I was very hooked and then my obsession kind of began. So that was going on two years now at this point.

Christian Brim (03:59.593)
Yeah, I'm sure your wife was very thrilled with you moving her to hot Orlando from cool Colorado and being very pregnant. Yes.

Evan Kuterbach (04:10.382)
Yes, yes, that was a challenge in offer.

Christian Brim (04:14.613)
Yes. So, how did you develop a business around pickleball? I mean, you, weren't an expert at pickleball by any stretch. So how did you come up with a business model?

Evan Kuterbach (04:26.702)
Sure. So my background was in sales, but when I transitioned out of the corporate world, I got more into kind of the marketing side of building businesses. And my background from that point after leaving the corporate world was as a copywriter. Are you familiar with copywriters? Probably a little bit, right? Yeah. So some people don't know what a copywriter is. So I have to kind of define it for maybe the audience listening, but it is in no way tied to legal, legalese. It's all tied to marketing. You can think of messaging.

emails, websites, that kind of stuff. And so I started building out a freelance career as a copywriter. That is kind of my introduction into really having to build brands, build messaging. And as I was playing pickleball, just living in Florida, getting more excited about the game, again, that entrepreneur itch just kind of kept rising to the surface. It was building, building, building. I'm 33 years old and I say probably over the last 25 years, it's just been

it's been building in my brain. And once it kind of started to boil over, I started to think about, you know, what could I start to give my all into? I had been working for clients as a copywriter. I had been helping other brands make money. And I really started to think, okay, how can I build something that is my own? Right? How can I build something that I can really give my own into? And so I got linked up with a buddy of mine who's also a copywriter earlier this year in January.

And we just started brainstorming ideas. We just started having a weekly brainstorming session where we would just hop on a Zoom. We would chat through different ideas. We would say things we were interested in. We would see what stuck. And things started to develop from there. I started sharing more about Pickleball, started sharing more about my interest in the game. And so it started to build naturally just through these conversations, through these brainstorming sessions with my now co-founder.

Christian Brim (06:23.575)
So to clarify, is Canyon Pickleball a facility?

Evan Kuterbach (06:32.12)
So Canyon Pickleball is an e-commerce brand. sell pickleball paddles. We also sell t-shirts and some other kind of swag in that way, but we focus on pickleball paddles and we're looking to start branching out into some other areas in pickleball, but yeah, not a facility e-commerce store. Yep.

Christian Brim (06:48.073)
Okay, and are you white labeling existing material or I mean did you create new equipment for this brand or talk about that?

Evan Kuterbach (07:04.312)
Sure. So we're working with a manufacturer to basically white label their, know, existing technology. did not create new technology with the paddles. Our mission at Canyon Pickleball really is to bring people into the sport. We are not trying to necessarily innovate new products, new technology. There's a lot of new technology out there. Our goal is to bring people into the sport. so we provide a really high quality premium, material. but

We decided to take less profit. That's been a big piece of the business model. We're a mission driven brand. So we donate a portion of our sales to charity and it's really been a big piece of us to bring people into the sport. So yeah, so we are working with the manufacturer. We're not creating the technology ourselves.

Christian Brim (07:51.083)
So are you delivering through and selling through platforms like Amazon or do you do your own through, sorry, like Shopify or something like that?

Evan Kuterbach (08:05.026)
Yeah, so we do Shopify. We are not on Amazon yet. We'd like to be at some point. We are also on TikToks. We do TikTok shop. And then we're also on like Facebook Marketplace and stuff like that. So we're Facebook shop now it is. Yeah.

Christian Brim (08:19.761)
And who is your target customer?

Evan Kuterbach (08:22.242)
Yeah, so our target customer is people that want to be outside, want to try something new. We like to say our target is everybody and also not everyone. So our target audience is really people probably ages, I would say 20 to 65 or so, which is a big range, but we're looking for people who want something new to do, want something to do that can move their body and get them outside while also giving back.

That's a big piece to it. So all of our designs, everything is inspired by the outdoors. My co-founder and I intentionally did that as we love being outside. We love going to national parks, love going camping, hiking, all of that. So they're all inspired by the outdoors. And then we donate a portion of sales back to the National Park Foundation to preserve their work while also using fully sustainable packaging materials to ship our products. So we are targeting people who want to be able to just

enjoy something new like pickleball. It's obviously been very popular in the US. So get your body moving, get your mind moving, and also being able to give back. So really not having to do much else on your end by just supporting us.

Christian Brim (09:32.545)
So, excuse me again. Is there some brand that inspired you or that you try to emulate?

Evan Kuterbach (09:41.006)
Yeah. I would say the brand that really kind of inspired our path is a brand called Prana. I don't know if you've heard of them before. P-R-A-N-A. They're actually a, they're a lifestyle outdoors brand really, really focused on eco conscious sourcing for their clothing material, all their packaging, all of that. They actually started as a rock climbing brand where they were solely focused on kind of rock climbing material and apparel.

Christian Brim (10:06.87)
Okay.

Evan Kuterbach (10:10.766)
And then they transition more into a of a lifestyle outdoors brand that really is just about doing good in the world. That is really a big brand that really we want to emulate. We see Canyon Pickleball as kind of a starting point for creating this lifestyle outdoorsy community that's really empowering people to get outside in their communities. Pickleball is a very accessible sport, so it's a great kind of jumping off point for people to associate that level of community with our brand with Canyon.

But we see Cannon Pickleball as kind of the jumping off point.

Christian Brim (10:44.513)
So you take somebody that has a sales and marketing background. I'm going to get this tickle out, I promise. And they start a pickleball e-commerce company. A lot of people wouldn't draw that line from point A to point B. But it kind of speaks to one of the things that I've spoken about at

different conferences is you're an entrepreneur with sales and marketing skills. You're not a sales and marketer and then an entrepreneur. And I think that distinction is important because what you see is as an entrepreneur you approach the world with there are problems to solve.

there are opportunities that can be mastered. And your skill set is kind of secondary. Whereas if you lead with your skill set, so like you could have gone into a sales consultancy or some type of marketing agency, copywriting company. But if you lead with your skill, you limit your opportunities.

because you're only seeing those things to which your skill applies, right? As opposed to if I'm an entrepreneur, I'm just out there and I'm seeing the world and I see these things that are opportunities. I see these problems and challenges that could be solved. And at some point you'll kick in and say, well I can apply my skill to that.

Does is that does that resonate with you? Is that kind of how your journey went?

Evan Kuterbach (12:43.768)
completely resonates with me. I think that hits the nail on the head and that's something that I teach really any of people that come to me for mentorship or anything like that as well. I have always been a big believer in acquiring skills, not really knowing when I might need those. And I think to that exact point that you mentioned is I never necessarily had an end goal in mind of, why was I?

Christian Brim (13:01.974)
Right.

Evan Kuterbach (13:10.274)
doing the things that I was doing, acquiring different skills and learning different things. But I knew that at some point I could apply kind of this combination of skills that I've learned towards solving that problem, that pain point that I was ultimately going to do. I think it's a big piece of enjoying the journey and not really knowing what the end goal is. I have big goals for Keana, I big goals for myself, but at the end of the day, it's all about trying to figure out.

the best way to enjoy that journey and that process.

Christian Brim (13:41.911)
Do you have any pickleball injuries?

Evan Kuterbach (13:46.606)
I do have a few pickleball injuries. I have some plantar fasciitis in my foot. I've got a kind of messed up shoulder from baseball growing up that isn't great with pickleball, but you roll with the punches.

Christian Brim (14:04.107)
Well, we, my wife and I were introduced to pickleball. I mean, we knew of pickleball, but we'd never played it. And we had a group that went to chicken and pickle, which is a restaurant. And I don't know if they have them there in Orlando, but we went with a group to take a lesson and then we played some games afterwards. And my, my wife was a tennis player when she was younger and I didn't play, we played mixed doubles and I didn't play with her.

And after the first break, she comes over and she's just like dripping with sweat. And I'm like, what are you doing? And she goes, well, I'm trying to win. And I'm like, you might slow down a bit. Okay. And the next break, she comes hobbling over and I'm like, what the hell did you do? She goes, I have no idea. Well, it turns out she tore her Achilles. Yes. And I'm like, you, you, yeah, anyway.

Evan Kuterbach (14:53.88)
I guess.

Christian Brim (15:00.096)
It's, it's a real sport. You really can get injured and don't go up against any 75 to 80 year old woman that's wearing a knee brace. Cause she will kick your ass.

Evan Kuterbach (15:10.894)
Agreed, agreed, especially if they have two knee braces and maybe an ankle support.

Christian Brim (15:14.453)
Yeah, she's taking that seriously. So, you're, you're still fairly new on your journey. Talk about, some of the, financial or business challenges that you've had in launching this business.

Evan Kuterbach (15:29.838)
Sure. I would say one of the biggest challenges we had, I would say me and my co-founder is at the start, you know, we kind of became business partners first and started to evolve our friendship. You know, we knew each other through similar circles. So really, I think I kind of lucked out to be honest with you to find a great partner, someone who this is not going to be our first business together. This is going to be one of many business ventures we go. But early on, right, you have to

Christian Brim (15:40.993)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (15:50.369)
Mm-hmm.

Evan Kuterbach (15:58.818)
become very vulnerable with that person. And again, this is speaking from someone who has a co-founder, if you're by yourself, it might be different. But for me, it was really having to be very vulnerable with my co-founder and vice versa to hear how we work well together. We had to figure that out early on. And one of the biggest challenges we had to figure out was, and this is what I tell anyone who gets into a side project or is building out a business is we need to learn what your skills are. What do you have to bring to the table?

Christian Brim (16:26.421)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Evan Kuterbach (16:27.758)
What do you want to learn? What are the skills you want to learn and you want to try to add to that skill set? And then start thinking about how you're to outsource the rest. And I don't necessarily mean right off the bat, but it is something you need to figure out where you're going to spend your time. So for me, I love social media. I love building that out. I didn't have a lot of skills in it, but I was wanting to learn. I had no interest in learning Facebook ads. My co-founder did. So he learned that. We did not know how to do website.

Christian Brim (16:37.083)
Mmm, yes.

Christian Brim (16:49.622)
Right.

Evan Kuterbach (16:57.208)
So we started to outsource that. So it was understanding where to spend our time. So early on, I would say we started to spend time on things that neither of us had an interest in, neither of us had a skill in, and we could have scaled faster at a more methodical pace if we had started to figure out how we could bring in maybe some outsourcing, some freelancers in that sense.

Christian Brim (16:59.029)
Right, right.

Christian Brim (17:07.425)
Yes.

Christian Brim (17:19.191)
Yeah, I talk about, you know, in profit first for creatives, I talk about how to make that determination of what you spent your time on. And I didn't put this in the book, but it is my experience that you're never going to be good at what you don't like. You may even have a natural

propensity for it or developed a skill, but if you don't want to do it, you're never going to be great at it, right? As you start out and as a business owner, you do have to wear a lot of hats and you do have to do a lot of things, but the quicker, like you said, the quicker you can get to getting those things off your plate, the quicker you can be more effective in the business and growing it. I talk about

the Pareto principle, is, most people refer to it as the 80-20 rule. And it was based upon an Italian economist in the 19th century and he did this study where he found out that 80 % of the land in Italy at the time was owned by 20 % of the people. And that seems very innocuous, but

It's really human behavior. what you see, you see the 80-20 everywhere when it comes to human behavior. And your bell curve is an 80-20, right? 20 % of the people are at the top of the curve, 20 % are at the bottom, and there's 60 in the middle. But the key is to find your 20%.

the 20 % of your activities that produce 80 % of your results and do more of it and less of the other 80 % because most of what we do as business owners is not real effective. And there's a certain school of thought that believes that there's, you know, just like the bell curve, you can go to the other end of the extreme and say there's

Christian Brim (19:44.503)
some small percentage, maybe it's 10, 20 % of things that you do that are actually counterproductive. Like it makes you go backwards if you'd get those things off your plate. But how have you applied that in your business?

Evan Kuterbach (19:56.014)
Mm-hmm.

Evan Kuterbach (20:02.254)
Yeah, I mean, I would say it's something that we're constantly struggling with and dealing with every day, right? As an entrepreneur, as someone who, you know, to be honest with you, Canyon is not the one business that is bringing in the money for the bills, right? So we all have things we're working on. My co-founder and I have things we're working on outside of that. So we are constantly having to decide where to divulge energy and move priorities from. And I think, again, that comes down to

not just a level of organization, but it comes from a level of, like you said, like what is going to move the needle for this project, for this priority, right? Like what is going to move the needle for you and then prioritizing those and then attacking those one by one. So I think again, it comes down to being open and communicative. If you have a co-founder, if you have a partner, I think just with yourself, it means being very open and vulnerable about what you're, you

Christian Brim (20:41.75)
Mm-hmm.

Evan Kuterbach (21:00.046)
trying to focus your attention and energy on. So I would say it's a constant progress. It's a Google Doc, right? You're working on it constantly. It's never completed. You never kind of finalize that. And I think the more you can go into that mindset knowing that it's never going to be completed, you're always working to that day in, day out. The easier it is to lean into being an entrepreneur, because it is difficult to constantly be in that state of flux.

Christian Brim (21:27.312)
Yes, some people are more comfortable with it than others. So you said when you started out with your partner...

Evan Kuterbach (21:28.718)
Agreed. Agreed.

Christian Brim (21:38.423)
that you had to be vulnerable. Talk about that. What kind of things were you having to be vulnerable about?

Evan Kuterbach (21:47.47)
Yeah, I think and this is something I share really on my kind of like a personal side on LinkedIn quite a bit with vulnerability in business. I think it's really important. I think it's a really strong characteristic of a good entrepreneur and a good leader. But for us, the vulnerability, would say the things we had to discuss were one money. I think money is one of the biggest pieces. Where are we going to be investing capital into, whether it's inventory, ads, whatever it is. You're pulled in lot of directions and

you once you create an LLC with someone and you're joint partners and you have a shared bank account, you're a little married to each other now. So being vulnerable in these conversations and I think that again comes to picking the right partner. The second piece that I would say we had to really be vulnerable about was when we're both struggling, right? If I, you know, if I'm having a bad day, if I'm like, you know what, you know, we chat probably for about three hours every day. But some days you just have a bad day, right? I've got a two year old daughter. I was, I was up late last night.

Christian Brim (22:35.361)
Hmm.

Evan Kuterbach (22:46.1)
And it's a bad day and you know, have to, we have to be able to say, Hey, you know, this is not the day for this. This is not the day for me to be able to hop on and chat with you. And that has to be okay. Right. There has to be that level of, I can come to you when I'm stressed. I can come to you with my worst fear of the business, my worst fear of anything that we're dealing with within the business. And I need to know that it's going to be welcomed and receptive and you're going to listen. If that's not the case, we wouldn't have made it as far as we have.

And we wouldn't be as strong a friends as we are today. that vulnerability piece is massive.

Christian Brim (23:20.747)
Yeah, my lawyer describes partner business partnerships as marriage without the sex. And I'm like, yeah, that's pretty much it. But, you know, I think that vulnerability, whether you have a partner or not, because I think, you know, there's different challenges in either being by yourself or with a partner, but being vulnerable with others, whether it's a

a colleague or a mentor or a coach, I think is critical because I find that, you know, my own journey, a lot of what I was trying to be as an entrepreneur was what someone else defined it as or what I had brought along.

the way as to what I thought an entrepreneur was and that led to some destructive behavior because I wasn't able to be authentic and I think authenticity and vulnerability or you know, they go hand-in-hand but you know if you take this the stresses of entrepreneurship and business running a business and Then you throw on top of that that you can't

be your authentic self because you can't be vulnerable and you're trying to be something that other people think you should be. For me, it was what's success, right? I've been privileged to hang out with and be friends and colleagues with a lot of very successful entrepreneurs. And in the back of my mind, it was always a comparison.

of like, well, you know, I'm satisfied with my success and my business, but look what they did. And you know, that enemy, envy is the, thief of joy. you know, you start, you start comparing yourself to the success of others. it's real hard to be satisfied with what, what you have and.

Christian Brim (25:43.767)
I'll add this to it that a lot of entrepreneurs are in this vanity game where, you know, they want to talk, I guess, you your startup bros or your tech bros of like, you know, this is what we've accomplished. And it's this imagery around, I'm in these cars, I'm in these jets, and I'm in Vegas club, whatever.

what I find though is that most of that is bullshit. it's, it's bravado. The reality is if you sit down with a bunch of entrepreneurs, you'll get conversations around, well, we did X dollars, millions of dollars last year, or we, we grew X percentage or where we've got

X number of employees. Never once in those conversations has someone said, well, I made X dollars last year profit. And there's a reason because you can have a successful business on the outside and not have a successful business on the inside, whether that's profitability,

or time, like you're working 100 hours a week, your marriage is in shambles, you don't see your kids, you're drinking too much because you can't face reality, whatever those things are, right? It's real easy to slide into that trap.

Evan Kuterbach (27:34.594)
Yeah, agreed. mean, and I think that's, I would say, again, it's one of those things that you, kind of almost get comfortable battling, right? You know, it's always going to be the keeping with, you know, keeping up with the Joneses effect. It's always going to be, especially, you know, when you're in, you know, the e-commerce game, and you've probably spoken to e-commerce entrepreneurs before, there is that constant, like you said, it is that constant battle with

Christian Brim (27:43.518)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (27:54.807)
Mm-hmm.

Evan Kuterbach (27:58.894)
You you see these big numbers, you see these inflated numbers, but again, you don't really know the operation. You don't really know, you know, I like to make the example of, you know, have you been, you know, to casinos before? I'm sure you have. And you're playing slots next to someone. Let's say you're playing slots next to the 80 year old woman who's sitting there. And, you know, you see two new bases, two new bases in a pickleball rack who just came back from the court.

Christian Brim (28:09.941)
Right.

Christian Brim (28:16.759)
With two knee, two knee braces and a pickleball record. Right. Yeah. Correct.

Evan Kuterbach (28:22.606)
And you see her pull her slip out and it says she's got, let's say she's got $5,000 on that ticket. And you're like, wow, she has $5,000. But you don't know if she is in the whole $15,000 or if she's up and she only spent $10. And that's the same thing with business. And I couldn't agree more because that has been a constant battle, especially as this is my first brand, physical product, physical store that we had built from the ground up. You're seeing that

Christian Brim (28:33.278)
Right, right.

Evan Kuterbach (28:51.02)
day in, day out, you see it not just from competitors, but you see it from other e-commerce brands. And obviously every marketing agency is coming knocking down our door, sharing case studies on case studies of what they've done for X, Y, Z brand. So it is a constant battle. And honestly, think, like you said, it's never easy to level with that mindset. But I think as long as you go into it knowing that what is success to me is different than what is success to Christian.

Success to me is spending more time with my family. Success to me is being able to pick up my daughter when she's sick at school. Success to me is being able to just take a Tuesday off because I needed a break. That is when I know I've reached a level of success. And so that mindset has really helped carry on over the last year and a half that I've been doing this.

Christian Brim (29:19.862)
Yes.

Christian Brim (29:26.487)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (29:40.279)
I'm going to pivot and ask you about brands since you're creating a brand. I had a guest on that is in the marketing space and works with companies to brand. And he had a, I thought a great super simple definition. It's the memory that you have of a company. So if you were going to describe the memory or the feeling that people

you want to you want people to have about Canyon Pickable, what is it?

Evan Kuterbach (30:16.502)
I would probably boil it down to one word and it's a word that is what got me into pickleball to begin with. And it's inclusivity. Inclusivity and just a feeling of community. So I would say inclusivity and community. It's the reason why on a pickleball court on any given day, I can be playing against a 13 year old and my partner is 75 and the person across from me also has, you know, a combat war wound and they have a prosthetic leg.

Christian Brim (30:24.183)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (30:44.797)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Evan Kuterbach (30:46.414)
you will never find another sport that can democratize the playing field like pickleball. I stand by that firmly. And so the level of inclusivity and welcomeness of the pickleball community is what drew me to it. And so we are creating that with Canyon is a place where you are welcome, you are accepted. Pickleball, again, I see as a jumping off point. So from a brand identity, the inclusivity, the welcomeness is what I see as Canyon's legacy.

Christian Brim (31:15.329)
I love it. Yeah, I would agree with that statement about it being, you know, it is a real sport, but it's unlike any other sport where your skill level or experience level gives you a pronounced advantage or your athletic ability, right? I mean, yeah.

Evan Kuterbach (31:37.108)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Agreed.

Christian Brim (31:41.879)
All right, I'll pivot again. So what did you learn about money growing up?

Evan Kuterbach (31:48.91)
It's a great question So my dad my dad was in you know kind of like the whole corporate sphere my entire life He was in marketing. He was more as kind of a buyer He worked for Nabisco worked for Blockbuster prior to Blockbuster going under And yeah, we had Blockbuster swag growing up all the tins all the toys and stuff. It was great He was actually interviewed for the documentary which was funny that was on I think Netflix or something before yeah

Christian Brim (32:04.769)
Nice.

Christian Brim (32:17.099)
Yeah.

Evan Kuterbach (32:18.446)
But anyways, we so we so we grew up Knowing kind of business was there but to be honest with you there wasn't a ton of conversations about money We knew that we needed to learn how to save we knew that we needed to Appreciate money. We grew up in a pretty middle-class households But I wouldn't say that I and even to this day I think my parents would agree they they they themselves did not really know how to teach us about money

They were not told very well how to invest, how to put money away and all that kind of area. So I would say a lot of what I learned about money probably came post college. Even while in college, I was a business major and was learning, but I would say a lot of it came from my own learnings after college. yeah, there wasn't a ton growing up.

Christian Brim (33:01.196)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (33:14.623)
What beliefs about money did you have that were maybe detrimental to your business? Maybe not detrimental, but limiting.

Evan Kuterbach (33:31.638)
I would say growing up, idea of spend money to make money was not something that I grew up learning until way later. And I would say even, you know, probably in the last couple of years, as my wife and I have started to really invest heavily in, you know, interests and real estate, et cetera. The idea of spending money to make money is, I would say, one of the hardest things to grapple with, especially as an entrepreneur, especially as a brand.

Christian Brim (33:39.415)
Hmm.

Evan Kuterbach (33:58.126)
It's what folds brand is what collapses businesses spending money too quickly Or not spending enough and I would say early on in the business We were very focused as we should be on Keeping the wallets are very tight. We tried again to do everything ourselves We didn't want to outsource we even weren't even you know spending more on ads when we could have been spending a little more on ads when things were going well, so we

almost to a fault, would say we're too frugal, not really understanding again, that principle of spending money to make money. And once we started, you know, realizing that we didn't need to reinvent the wheel, people have done a lot of the things that we were looking to do. And that is really where it started to get more into the idea of coaching and mentoring and all of that and being able to, you know, learn from other people. So I would say that was a pretty massive piece of about money that I did not grow up learning and it kind of

halted our business a little bit.

Christian Brim (34:56.98)
Yeah. Yes. I, I talk about that in the book where your, your value of money, your belief system around money, that you come into the business with can be, I'd say for pretty much everybody is a challenge because there's some things that you, that we think we know, to be true, that aren't true. And there are some things we just don't know.

And it's a struggle to make that shift, but some of those beliefs have to be set aside and some of them have to evolve. But, you know, it's like one of my guests said that's currently he does mindset coaching, but before that he was a podcaster. you know, he's a business owner, but

His statement was that that every belief that you have, came from outside of you. Like someone gave it to you. You picked it up along the way. so along those lines, because you picked it up, it's not part of who you are. It's just something you acquired. You can let it go. and that's, that's, I think a key point because whatever it is, you think, you know, about money or business or, you know, any, anything,

you have the option if it's not serving you, if it's not getting you what you want, to put it down and let it go.

Evan Kuterbach (36:34.318)
I like that a lot, I like that a lot. I think, you know, again, even only at 33 years old, I think there's outside of money, there's a lot of those pieces that I would like to let go. But when you think about it like that, that again, everything has been acquired, right? It has been, you know, weren't just born necessarily with all of this, you were acquiring these pieces. So it's okay to shed some of that. So I like that a lot.

Christian Brim (36:45.835)
Right.

Christian Brim (36:54.113)
No.

Christian Brim (36:58.003)
Absolutely. Evan, how do we find Canyon Pickleball? Where do we go?

Evan Kuterbach (37:03.948)
Yeah, sure. So we are on our website is Canyon Pickleball.com Instagram, same thing at Canyon Pickleball, TikTok, LinkedIn, you name it, we're on it. We're always posting updates on Instagram. It's where we're most relevant.

Christian Brim (37:20.457)
I really appreciate your time and your experience here. If listeners, you like what you hear, please subscribe, leave a review, share the podcast. If you don't like what you heard, shoot us a message and I won't have Evan back anymore. Until later, ta ta for now.