Pricing Is Emotional | Jonathan Schüßler

PROFITABLE TALKS...

In this episode of the Profitable Creative, host Christian Brim speaks with Jonathan Schüßler, a photographer and videographer based in Germany. They discuss Jonathan's journey into the creative industry, the dynamics of the wedding industry, and the balance between personal life and work. Jonathan shares insights on B2B marketing, the importance of SEO, and building trust with clients. They also delve into pricing strategies and the emotional aspects of pricing in both the wedding and B2B sectors. The conversation concludes with Jonathan's thoughts on the challenges and opportunities in the creative business landscape.

PROFITABLE TAKEAWAYS...

• Jonathan started his journey in photography while studying at university.
• He transitioned from shooting weddings to focusing on B2B video content.
• The wedding industry in Germany is influenced by trends from the US and Australia.
• Jonathan prefers to work locally to maintain a work-life balance.
• SEO is crucial for local businesses to compete effectively.
• Building trust with clients is essential for successful marketing.
• Pricing strategies can significantly impact perceived value.
• Emotional factors play a key role in purchasing decisions.
• Jonathan enjoys the variety of working in both wedding and B2B sectors.
• He emphasizes the importance of presenting oneself professionally in business.

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Transcript

Christian Brim (00:01.298)
Welcome to another episode of the Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. am your host, Christian Brim. Special shout out to our one listener in Pittsburgh, California. I'm always confused when there are names of cities that are like adopted, stolen. I don't know.

Pittsburgh is in Pennsylvania not California. But anyway, thank you for listening joining me today all the way across the pond Jonathan Schussler Schussler shoes Jonathan welcome to the show. I Really did practice listeners. I really did Jonathan Schussler Yes. Okay. Anyway, welcome to the show Jonathan

Jonathan Schüßler (00:43.63)
Thank you for having me. And that was decent.

Jonathan Schüßler (00:54.872)
Thank so much for having me. Yeah, when you said stolen names, I just saw a map the other day of like German cities across the US and which ones you can find. There's like obviously the main ones. There's like five Berlin's or something, but there's some crazy little towns that I would have never imagined to find on the map.

Christian Brim (01:11.207)
that

There might be a Heidelberg. I don't know.

Jonathan Schüßler (01:16.79)
I there is, I'm pretty sure there is. It makes sense. And we have loads of Americans here as well.

Christian Brim (01:18.994)
Yeah, well lots of Germans made their way. Yeah, my wife's family. Yes, very, very integrated. The two cultures. My wife's family came up through Galveston, back in the 19th century, settled in Missouri. So my wife is half German, not immigrated recently, but in any case.

So tell us a little bit about your CV, what's your professional experience?

Jonathan Schüßler (01:52.268)
Yeah. So basically after school, went to uni. First I had a year abroad. That's probably why my English is not sounding hopefully as much German as you think it would be. but then I went to uni, started doing maths, switch to like a teaching course to do maths and sports. But in all that, I didn't really feel like this is what I wanted to do in the end.

And at the time I was taking loads of pictures and me and my mate, we would go out, we would ask all our friends to like model for us, do some creative shoots. And at some point I was like, maybe I want to do freelance, like being self-employed. And what could I do this with? And I thought, well, I really like taking pictures right now. So this could be an end for me to get into like the creative industry.

Christian Brim (02:39.922)
Okay.

Jonathan Schüßler (02:52.654)
So I started shooting some weddings. I did shoot my first wedding in 2017 when I was in London. So that's a while ago now. Getting older. You can see it by the receding hairline. I'm not old, but I'm starting to feel the back. I'm starting to lose some hair. It's all there. No, and then I...

Christian Brim (03:08.83)
Yes, yes.

Not as old as I.

Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Schüßler (03:20.834)
basically went into the wedding industry as like my getting like my start into freelancing. And when I decided to go in on this, basically all in pretty fast, I thought, okay, I think the future might be in video. So I started doing photo and video at the same time. And also my friend who was building his like web agency, I would start getting like his smaller clients.

to maybe try to do a bit of, B2B. Yeah. After a while, I went part-time with the agency and build my own wedding business on the one side and was with the agency on the other side. At some point I left the agency, did my own B2B stuff on, on the other side and then moved cities. Had to move my whole business basically to a very different area of Germany.

Which was tough, which was really tough. but yeah, now I have a very blooming wedding business on one side, which is mainly doing photo video at the same time on a wedding day. And then I have like local SEO and then also like trust based video business content for companies on the other side.

Christian Brim (04:45.374)
Okay, so a couple of follow-up questions. In Germany, I'm curious, or England for that matter, is the wedding industry as obnoxious as it is here in the States? I, okay. Well, I mean, let me clarify the obnoxious part. Like, I'm shocked how much money, time, and effort

Jonathan Schüßler (05:05.006)
don't

Christian Brim (05:14.268)
are put into weddings. And I didn't know if that was an American thing or just a female thing.

Jonathan Schüßler (05:19.758)
It's definitely an American thing, but we see trends from America drop over a few years later here. So we always have a very close eye on the American market and also the Australian market because the Australian market, they always dictate the trends for the next season. Somehow they're the trendsetters.

Christian Brim (05:22.419)
Okay.

Christian Brim (05:42.547)
Hmm.

Jonathan Schüßler (05:46.094)
But they obviously have their season when it's our off season. Since they're just like right now they're mid season. So everything we see there, which is like high end wedding trends, that will come over for next season for us. And where you guys, from what I see at least on social media, video is a much bigger...

Christian Brim (05:46.292)
Okay.

Christian Brim (05:50.173)
Right?

Jonathan Schüßler (06:13.582)
part of weddings in the US already, whereas right now we're in like the early adapter stage, I would say. And money-wise, we're in a very, very different category. So I'm like entry-level luxury, which is between like three to 8,000, I would say. Whereas in the US, I see loads of people charging like 10 to 30,000.

Christian Brim (06:16.861)
Yes.

Christian Brim (06:35.284)
Okay.

Jonathan Schüßler (06:42.712)
for the service that I'm offering.

Christian Brim (06:43.174)
Yes. Yes. Yes. So you should move. No. have have you know, I see a lot of destination weddings and and like videographers and photographers doing that niche. you done any destination wedding?

Jonathan Schüßler (06:48.876)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I should, I should. No, I wouldn't.

Jonathan Schüßler (07:05.474)
I've done some, the other year I shot a wedding on Sicily, which was very nice Australian couple that knew and that was fun. I've taken pictures like my, would say I'm trying to get most my clients to be local, even though I am pretty expensive to be a local photographer. But I'm really focusing.

Christian Brim (07:11.572)
Mmm.

Christian Brim (07:26.996)
Hmm

Christian Brim (07:32.275)
Right?

Jonathan Schüßler (07:35.744)
everything on that I can be within like an hour's reach of where I'm working for three out of four weekends of the month. That has two different reasons. Number one, I kind of want to have a family at some point in the near future. And I think I have loads, I'm really well connected within the photography space of the local area. And two of my closest coworkers, they do.

Christian Brim (07:40.862)
Right?

Jonathan Schüßler (08:04.334)
Basically just destination weddings. They make more money than I do, but they're flying to 40 weddings a year, which is I haven't seen one of them. I haven't seen her. She's like, I've, I've met her three times over the past year, which was always at conferences, not here. She lives like five minutes down the road from me, but I haven't met her for coffee in Heidelberg for over a year. So, and I.

Christian Brim (08:06.888)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (08:11.816)
Yes.

Christian Brim (08:20.5)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (08:33.106)
because of her travel.

Jonathan Schüßler (08:33.73)
I couldn't live that way.

Christian Brim (08:36.274)
Yeah. And there's, there's, that's definitely saying something about being intentional about building the business that, that serves you, that, that is what you want. because it's, it's easy to not, well, you have to, you have to have some intent. but if the intent is just, I want to do more or I want to grow, can easily take you places you don't want to be.

Right. So if you wanted to make more money and travel, that would be the trade off. And that's not what you want. And I think it's brilliant that you have have recognized that and are being intentional about building a business that you want that serves your needs.

Jonathan Schüßler (09:22.764)
Yeah, don't get me wrong. I really like the adventures of going abroad for wedding. It's fun. It's something special. It's a new place and the creative process. We need that like newness somehow. Right. I couldn't shoot the same venue every weekend, but flying to 40 weddings, people underestimate how much work that means. Basically you're flying in two days early. So if

Christian Brim (09:31.603)
Right.

Christian Brim (09:36.254)
Yes, yes.

Christian Brim (09:40.67)
Right.

Jonathan Schüßler (09:50.742)
something's happening like the weather's not good, there's a strike going on at the airport, whatever, you can't miss this. So if the wedding is on the Saturday, you're flying in on Thursday and you're flying back Sunday. So you're already on half the week. Basically what that means is you could just stay two days more and fly to the next wedding just after. That means you're never home. I'm not sure how much

Christian Brim (09:59.571)
Right.

Christian Brim (10:06.377)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (10:15.87)
Sure. Right.

Jonathan Schüßler (10:19.938)
she sees her partners. Like it's both these like all the people that I know that are doing these they're flying there. I think they made a statistic like last conference we met that a statistic where she was like she slept at home this year less than like 60 times. Which is insane.

Christian Brim (10:40.99)
Wow. Wow.

Well, but for some people that may be what they want, right? Yeah. Right.

Jonathan Schüßler (10:48.386)
Yeah, they love it. They want to be around. They love just sitting at a cafe on the beach, editing the pictures of last week's wedding.

Christian Brim (10:57.96)
Yeah. Okay, so I want to pivot now and talk about the the B2B you mentioned SEO. And I admit that I'm not really educated on this. What is the tie in between video and SEO?

Jonathan Schüßler (11:17.166)
Basically, what I really like about SEO right now is it is heavily locally focused. So you cannot rank on Google or any of the LLMs for like big keywords if you're a small player. There's no way. The big players, they have big teams, they know what they're doing. They're outranking on everything. But if you're locally serving something,

Christian Brim (11:27.988)
Hmm.

Christian Brim (11:36.809)
Right.

Jonathan Schüßler (11:45.71)
People usually type into Google, I need a plumber, emergency plumber, Heidelberg. And that's what we're looking for. and I have loads of pages on my website where I want to focus on building a brand where I once a month fly out of the country for a wedding, but also have like three weddings, three weekends.

Christian Brim (11:51.773)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (12:02.996)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (12:11.1)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Schüßler (12:14.56)
a week where get like 2-3 weddings just locally because I know they're tiring but if I'm just driving half an hour there I might as well do one on Friday and one on Saturday because I'm dead on Sunday anyways so I might as well do two get double the money for that week so I really need to focus on being the big fish in the small pond around my area and that's why I first started like

Christian Brim (12:26.878)
Right.

Christian Brim (12:32.563)
Right.

Jonathan Schüßler (12:44.258)
learning a little bit of SEO and then realized, well, this has huge value to local businesses, but also local businesses need basic, basically everything else I do as well. And the only thing I'm not doing right now is websites. Like I could do it after working in the agency, but I'm basically just, I need the SEO for the reach. And then I'm doing.

Christian Brim (13:11.508)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Schüßler (13:12.952)
personalized and trust building photo and video content, mainly testimonial videos, some image films, some like personality based portraits in the moment. I don't really like the basic business portraits. I think if I, if I, if I'm looking for like a private doctor in the area that is very specialized on like post COVID.

Christian Brim (13:29.789)
Right.

Christian Brim (13:39.998)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Schüßler (13:43.158)
I'll say, so I'm looking for someone who's specialized in something that is very scarce. loads of people need it, but they don't know like, can we trust him? It's like a very unsure field. and so what I, I'm looking for in this, if when I'm helping this, these customers is first, I want to know how they're reaching their customers.

Christian Brim (13:44.584)
Right.

Christian Brim (14:00.754)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Schüßler (14:13.258)
And that begins with the customer itself. So what are the customers looking for if they don't know what they're searching for? So if they're saying, am a post COVID. Yeah, I'm struggling with post COVID and Heidelberg.

Christian Brim (14:22.066)
Right.

Christian Brim (14:31.646)
Right.

Jonathan Schüßler (14:33.176)
There should be people on Reddit talking about this or like anywhere, right? And we need to find out what wording are they using? And then we're finding out what are their problems? And if we write about their problems, they might find us. If they go to the website, what do they need to find? They need to find a person that they can talk to because they have a problem. They don't trust like stock footage. Everyone knows what stock footage looks like.

Christian Brim (14:44.531)
Right?

Jonathan Schüßler (15:02.914)
these days. So we need to have a picture of someone greeting people coming into the doctor's office. And then what's the next most important thing where they feel welcomed. Now they want to know is this person trustworthy? So I'm clients that they had talking about what were they worried about before they got in contact with this doctor's office.

And what's this like fear rational, or did they just make it up in their head and actually it all worked out fine. And usually it all worked out fine. Right. So I'm trying to only work with companies or doctors or something that have actually good product. That's really important. I think there's too many people doing stupid stuff.

Christian Brim (15:39.314)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (15:44.262)
Right.

Jonathan Schüßler (16:01.57)
that is not actually serving the customers. If they're serving the customers, it's so easy to do marketing for them. You just need to do it from the side of the customer.

Christian Brim (16:13.372)
So the agency that you worked for is not in Heidelberg? It was where you lived before. So you sound like you have a very good grasp and picked up some good marketing chops working for the agency. I'm curious how you

Jonathan Schüßler (16:19.19)
No. Yeah.

Christian Brim (16:39.988)
handle or what your approach is to both, because those are really two distinct businesses, know, the B2B marketing and then wedding videography. In your mind, how do you manage those two?

Jonathan Schüßler (16:59.342)
Basically most the clients that I work for in the B2B sense, they need exactly what I need as well. I'm also a localized business in the luxury market that is oversaturated. So I have loads of competitors that I need to beat on socials. I need to beat them on Google. Although I know we are

Christian Brim (17:07.668)
Mm.

Jonathan Schüßler (17:28.138)
somehow competing, but I feel like I'm always like when someone's asking for help, I'm always helping them and the other way around because it's, it's really, we're just coworkers, just all in our own little offices at home. but I know that I can take all those measures that I'm doing B2B wise for other people and just implementing them at my own surfaces.

And the other thing, the only thing that really changes is actually turning up at the events and like dressing up differently, talking differently a little bit. You know, I'm, I'm more like a chameleon trying to fit in to the wedding party as like a extra guest ish.

Christian Brim (18:20.212)
If you had a preference as to which of those two parts of the business that if you had to pick one or if you wanted to do more of one than the other, which would you choose?

Jonathan Schüßler (18:37.646)
I think I could do one without the other. I am pretty easily bored. I'm very interested in loads of things. I think this is my small superpower that I'm always very interested in, very try hard at everything that I do.

Christian Brim (18:41.084)
Interesting. Okay.

Christian Brim (18:47.945)
Yes.

Christian Brim (18:53.566)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (18:58.099)
Right.

Jonathan Schüßler (18:59.598)
I'm definitely doing more weddings. There's no, no doubt about that. Um, I might, I think B2B is a very tough space in the moment anyways. Um, we have like, there's definitely not as many business opportunities as there would be like five, 10 years ago. Uh, especially as a videographer, because it felt like you had a camera, you knew how to do, you knew to press the red button. You're fine.

Christian Brim (19:19.742)
Hmm.

Jonathan Schüßler (19:29.632)
Nowadays, there's very, a lot less people that need video services because they tried it, it didn't really work, they're not doing it anymore. And also the recession.

Christian Brim (19:44.038)
Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't know what you saw there in Germany, but I think in the U S what I saw is, everybody did it. Everybody in business wanted video without really having any strategy or, or thought behind it. was just like everybody was doing videos. So we're going to do video. And then

I also think that people got more comfortable with like do it yourself video. I think that was like people appreciated the authenticity of it. wasn't as slick, you know, but I think, you know, certain people like yourself and your customers that are

are professional, there's an expectation, right? Like if that if that doctor is is filming it with his phone, you know, talking into the camera or now they'd usually be down here and they'd be looking up their nose. You know, it's just not the right image. It doesn't set the right tone. It doesn't build the trust that you would expect from a physician. So I think I think what you're you're describing

I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead and make a leap and say that that you know AI video and images are a similar thing in that it's the new thing and everybody's doing it because they can but I think there's going to be this whiplash where it's like this doesn't work and and and it's not authentic and and the

The reality as I see it is that the reason why most marketing fails is because it's these random acts of marketing. There's not some overarching strategy to it. Like what you described I think is brilliant. you have an intent. It's not I'm just gonna come film some video. It's what specific.

Christian Brim (22:09.926)
What specific problem am I solving? Right? And I think also the fact that you took the problem you solve for yourself as being a luxury provider in a market and what you learned from that leveraging it to provide to others is also brilliant. think that's, know, entrepreneurs at the end of the day solve problems, right?

And the best way to do that is to solve a problem repeatedly, right? So you're not having to reinvent the wheel each time. And where best to do that, then with a problem you solve for yourself. And you're like, looking around like, surely someone else has got this problem, right?

Jonathan Schüßler (23:04.526)
I think it's easier to solve problems for someone else. It's 100 % harder if it's about yourself. I really love when I'm talking about my problems to someone else. They say like half a sentence and the problem's solved. And I was like, I've been thinking about this for three weeks. Why are you only telling me now? But it's so much easier to see like the meta level of something.

Christian Brim (23:09.844)
Mmm.

Christian Brim (23:25.252)
Mm. Mm.

Jonathan Schüßler (23:34.646)
in someone else's work. And I feel like I always take something out of, for my, for my own work when I'm doing another BTB client that has a different problem. But as you said, most of the time I'm working with businesses that have trust issues, like consultants in any kind, basically. So, and also like real estate agents that's

Christian Brim (23:45.138)
Yeah. Yeah.

Christian Brim (23:54.653)
Right.

Jonathan Schüßler (24:02.36)
pretty huge part of my client base right now. Because they obviously they have, I'm not sure how it's in the U S but here the word has like some little bit of, you're not a hundred percent sure that they are working in your best interest. Or there's something like

Christian Brim (24:24.966)
Hmm.

Jonathan Schüßler (24:29.912)
Do you really think this is the best price we can get for this house? It's a very personal thing to sell your house through a real estate agent. And because you have a lot of memories connected to that house.

The real estate agent doesn't have that and also the buyer doesn't have that. And.

Christian Brim (24:50.676)
Well, yeah, and and and I think structurally you are correct with real estate just my opinion because They only care 3 % or whatever the commission is right? So like, you know Looking at price. Well, you know come down $5,000. It's only 150 to them It's 5,000 to you and so yeah, I think there is a structural thing where you

Jonathan Schüßler (25:02.908)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (25:16.924)
you should ask your real estate agent like me really have my best interest at heart because like it if they don't close the deal they don't get paid right. Okay, so I want to ask a couple of follow up questions on we talked about your pricing in the wedding space. How do you handle your pricing in the b2b space?

Jonathan Schüßler (25:44.834)
Did we talk about the pricing in the wedding space?

Christian Brim (25:47.76)
Well, you said you were in the high end, the luxury end, and you talked about what you priced. But if you want to go further on that, that's fine too.

Jonathan Schüßler (25:52.659)
yeah.

Jonathan Schüßler (25:56.48)
so basically the difference that I make is obviously for, for wedding in the wedding space. I want a price and I'm even like considering changing a little bit again right now. I want to tell them as soon as possible, a price that's going to be the final price. If I say one number, this is the number that's going to stick in their head and I don't want any that to go on top. don't want any travel to go on top.

Christian Brim (26:16.628)
Mmm.

Jonathan Schüßler (26:25.986)
Right now I do have travel on top, but my, I'm thinking, I thought about long time, like years. And I think, and I thought, yeah, it's unfair to charge everyone the same amount, even though I'm traveling different ways. But right now I'm thinking, actually, they just want to know how much it's cost, how much it costs. And also what I'm delivering to them. I don't need a chart.

Christian Brim (26:28.628)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (26:54.109)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Schüßler (26:55.412)
of what costs what in the B2B space. I obviously I'm

Jonathan Schüßler (27:05.838)
I'm doing a little bit different to other people. know a lot, a lot of other creatives they charge depending on the size of the company, the where it's going to be delivered. I'm basically just have setting up a price that's gonna be good if I do it once better, if I do it multiple times. So I have, if I do a testimonial video.

I have a package one costs 2000 euros. If I do three, 5,000, there's nothing else. There's only these two options. with SEO, it's a bit different because it really depends on, on the customer, where they want to go, what like budget they have, how long the contract's going to be. But usually I'm trying to just set a single price.

Christian Brim (27:43.987)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Schüßler (28:06.098)
And there I'll probably add like travel, but usually it's, I'm trying to make it simple as possible.

Yeah, for B2B clients, obviously without that, but I'm not sure how it's working with you guys, but.

Christian Brim (28:22.398)
Well, yeah, I mean, I think, I think, yeah, with with brides that have a budget for the wedding in mind, the predictability of knowing what the number is and that that's what the number is going to be is is uber important. So, yeah, slipped in a German word there. But the the business to business is different. I was thinking about

A client that was interviewed. interviewed and he was talking about. He, when he was first starting out, he had a big company that asked him to propose and he had a friend that was kind of an intermediary and or more of a mentor and he came up with a price and his mentor came back and said, that's too low.

if you, if you give that amount to them, they're, they're going to think that you're not legitimate, and that they're not going to get quality work. And so, you know, he basically coached him on what to get the price to. And, and I think when you're, when you're dealing with, pricing, I think you absolutely have to take that into account. because.

Jonathan Schüßler (29:27.426)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (29:49.764)
Your price dictates your value. So I'll go I'll go back to the 1970s when Mercedes-Benz Yes, I'm tying in a German company. Yes. This is what I do. I I'm a brilliant host. Please don't try to replicate this at home Mercedes-Benz was coming into the US market and they weren't getting much traction and One year. I don't remember. It was in the early 70s

Jonathan Schüßler (30:06.433)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (30:18.44)
they essentially doubled their price. They didn't change the models, they just changed the pricing and their sales shot up because they had positioned themselves as a luxury vehicle as opposed to just a common vehicle. And it makes no sense on the surface. It makes no rational sense for someone to do that. But when you're talking about pricing, only the customer can

Determine the value and if you set the price too low You're you're signaling to them that you're not worth it and and you know, obviously if you're dealing with a You know by you can't Charge them the same thing that you'd be charging the local doctor I mean like they're not going to even give you the the time of day

Jonathan Schüßler (31:13.484)
Yeah. And I think so I can mainly talk about, because I tried more, I had like, I get like 300 inquiries a year for my wedding business. So I have more training data for this, I would say, or more data that I actually thought about and like checked.

Christian Brim (31:29.694)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Schüßler (31:37.422)
There's definitely like, I know a colleague of mine, she used to have like, she had like three hour minimums at 999 euros and then like 300 per hour on top of that. That used to be our price. And she would get loads of people booking her for those three hours because the number that they remembered.

Christian Brim (31:51.987)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (32:04.82)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Schüßler (32:07.112)
is, she's under a thousand. So she would get loads of bookings for the people that set the bracket zero to a thousand and they're like she's the best one out of those. Whereas she just raised her minimum to four hours and a thousand three hundred now she's in the one thousand two hundred two thousand space with people setting their maximum to be like one point five two thousand euros.

Christian Brim (32:10.292)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (32:17.436)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (32:26.548)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (32:32.134)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Schüßler (32:37.038)
Now she got loads of bookings at around 1900 because now people are seeing her to be between a thousand and 2000 and being one of the good ones and like the cheapest one in that one, because people would offer them 1600 and they were like, oh, we have this one for 1300. Now she's the cheapest one in that bracket. Then there's a dead bracket. It's the two to 3000 euro bracket.

Christian Brim (32:37.428)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (33:00.386)
Right.

Jonathan Schüßler (33:06.668)
because it's too expensive for

the average people that want to not spend too much on their wedding, but it's not good enough for the expensive people. So if you charge between two to 3000 per wedding in Germany, I feel like you're missing out on most of the weddings because you're not, you're in a dead space. Um,

Christian Brim (33:15.176)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (33:18.664)
Right.

Christian Brim (33:31.282)
Yeah, because think about it. You know, these these brides, they have a budget and then they are talking to each other about, well, what did you spend? What did you spend? And so there's a lot of anchoring going on. Right. And so when they come to you, they've already anchored their price. It's not you. You can't do anything.

in most cases to go beyond that by providing more value. They don't care because that that number is sacrosanct. That's that's the number I'm going to spend. And that's that's the fascinating thing about pricing to me. You being a former math professor. Sorry, tongue in cheek there. Yes, OK. But but you know, we we we and I'm I'm an accountant by trade like we want

Jonathan Schüßler (34:21.706)
must drop out more like but

Christian Brim (34:31.324)
the numbers to analytically make sense, right? We're about computing numbers and analyzing numbers and all of that. But when it comes to pricing, most of that goes out the window because it's not a rational decision.

Jonathan Schüßler (34:34.072)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan Schüßler (34:43.534)
doesn't matter.

Jonathan Schüßler (34:47.042)
No, I have some colleagues. I'm not going to drop their names. They literally. No, it's, it's on the internet. At some point, the AIS will be able to pick it up out of the podcast. Basically what they do, they just trial and error their prices every week. They have different pricing packages, usually like three to four at a time. And they differentiate like loads, like.

Christian Brim (34:50.992)
Nobody knows them here. That's fine. Go ahead.

okay, yes. Yes.

Christian Brim (35:07.252)
Mm.

Jonathan Schüßler (35:16.526)
2000 per package and they just they're like Okay, this week. I already got two clients let's just bump up the prices and They try it if it doesn't work. Okay, they try a different package next week and They can cost four thousand this week. They can cost six thousand next week. They can cost seven thousand week after Then they might go back to five thousand

They're have it feeling based. They have different prices and people inquire them. Now, like we get married at this castle. They're like, nice. They already paid 60,000 for the venue alone. No food included. Bump up the prices and it works. They get clients.

Christian Brim (36:07.774)
Well, sure, absolutely. mean, and that that also speaks to like, where their mindset is if they've got enough work booked for the week. They're not. Well, no.

Jonathan Schüßler (36:19.796)
they didn't have any workbook at the time. They went from zero to everything in a year.

Christian Brim (36:25.364)
Was you mentioned like they have to booked if they're gonna do the third it's gonna be at a lot higher price right because of their capacity and and certainly that has to come into play in pricing, know, they're either it's actual capacity or you know, like need for revenue or You know just you're wanting to

Jonathan Schüßler (36:29.9)
yeah.

Christian Brim (36:51.88)
to do it. Like, I don't like these people. I don't want to travel there to do I don't like that venue. I've worked there, whatever. I mean, so what you what you need, as the business owner absolutely can can play into your pricing. But the point is, that it doesn't really matter what you want, or prefer the customer is always going to dictate the pricing. I mean, that's just the way it is.

Jonathan Schüßler (37:21.016)
feel like most.

Buying decisions are made unconsciously?

Christian Brim (37:29.844)
100%.

Jonathan Schüßler (37:31.256)
So the pricing is a very rational factor that most of time doesn't factor in.

Christian Brim (37:41.222)
No, it's the and and there's data on this. I can't reference any off the top of my head, but all all buying decisions even in business to business. Now, this is the where where people get get hung up. Everybody makes decisions on purchasing emotionally, which is largely subconsciously and then their brain.

comes over the top with the rationalizations to justify that emotional decision, right? And even in a business to business, because you say, well, you're talking to the business owner and it's not an emotional decision. Absolutely, it's a emotional decision. Do they like Jonathan? Do they like his work? Do they trust him? Do they feel like he's going to?

do what he says he's going to do and provide value to me. And once that trust is there, that's their decision, not the pricing. the pricing then just becomes a negotiation point, an anchor point. There may be some hard limitations like I can't spend that much money, I don't have it, but it all depends upon how much they want what you're giving them.

Jonathan Schüßler (39:04.654)
Yeah, I... So, if this was our, like, sign-on call right here, I've made some things... correctly, and some things I already failed miserably. One thing I already failed is I'm not dressing up to the occasion. I'm just here in a nice warm sweater because it's freezing outside. I should've went over there...

Christian Brim (39:12.926)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (39:30.771)
Yes.

Jonathan Schüßler (39:33.504)
my business code hanger, which is legit stuff that I never wear privately. I'm always dressing up. I even have private glasses. Right?

Christian Brim (39:40.54)
Right. It's costume.

Christian Brim (39:46.788)
okay. You look okay.

Jonathan Schüßler (39:48.472)
So this is how you see me most days, but I have a smart, smart business glasses. And then also I have a fancy, my fancy looking Mike. That's a little bit damaged here. obviously I have a camera hung up at all times to make sure, because I'm selling video. Why should, why would I be able to sell video if my video looked shit? Right.

Christian Brim (39:56.627)
Yes.

Christian Brim (40:04.392)
Yes?

Christian Brim (40:11.208)
Mm-hmm.

Christian Brim (40:17.288)
Right.

Jonathan Schüßler (40:18.766)
Sorry for swearing. Like, if I was turned off... All those... Lights...

Christian Brim (40:20.818)
No swear away.

Jonathan Schüßler (40:28.664)
turn on the room light. What's this? There's a guy that looked very home cozy with bad lighting. I know he sounds good. I'm not sure how to quickly change like my inputs, but yeah, it's, it's a huge factor. If I'm selling good video, why would I not turn up like really, really cool in a video call?

And this is way more important than the price that I'm going to say in the end. I'm going to turn my life cycle.

Christian Brim (41:12.53)
Now I'm curious, you know, this is a audio only podcast so they don't have the benefit. no, that's totally fine because my question to you is, is that, is there an actual window that that light is coming through or is that some? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. I thought maybe it was some type of filter that you were projecting because it's a cool image on the back of, know, it looks, you know,

Jonathan Schüßler (41:17.516)
sorry.

Jonathan Schüßler (41:28.052)
no, it's dark outside. We got winter. It's 10 to 5 my time. Yeah, no, this is...

Jonathan Schüßler (41:40.868)
yeah. It's, I got this little like this thing. It's like a torch that has a filter on.

Christian Brim (41:42.504)
But that's an actual.

Uh-huh. Right. that's brilliant. Yeah. Brilliant.

Jonathan Schüßler (41:55.31)
Pretty cheap, but very cool backlit accessory. And then also have another light on there that's usually lighting up my dark side a little bit. but I had no time finding a second cable. So yeah.

Christian Brim (41:58.1)
Yeah.

Christian Brim (42:09.406)
Well, that's honestly why when we started this, was like, I don't want to do video because that's a lot more work to get the production the way I want it. And so that's why I never, never bothered.

Jonathan Schüßler (42:20.236)
Hey, if you ever want to go to video, just send me a message. I'll send you which three cheap lights to get and what's the cheapest camera option for you to have a very cool looking setup.

Christian Brim (42:33.363)
I absolutely will. I absolutely will.

Jonathan Schüßler (42:36.13)
I literally made like my, made a setup like this for my aunt. She's, I don't know the word in English.

Christian Brim (42:46.696)
Give it to us in German. Maybe we'll figure it out.

Jonathan Schüßler (42:48.29)
Well, she is... She's a midwife by first, and then she's teaching them if they have struggles.

Christian Brim (42:55.581)
Okay.

Jonathan Schüßler (43:04.306)
I don't know how to put it with the milk if they have struggles with milk

Christian Brim (43:05.886)
postpartum depression? lactation.

Jonathan Schüßler (43:11.006)
Yeah, but then also there could be like loads of different problems, like the child could have problems. could buy it and stuff. So she's, she's teaching midwives about this. So she's, holding these online courses and literally last week I made like a setup for her in her price range, which was fun and stressful at the same time.

Christian Brim (43:17.682)
Yeah, yeah.

Yes.

Christian Brim (43:32.456)
Yes. Jonathan, how do folks find you if they happen to listen to the show in Heidelberg and want to find you? What's the best way to do that?

Jonathan Schüßler (43:45.214)
you can find me nearly on all platforms. I do have two different websites. First, Jonathan Schistler dot com. And then the other one I'm not even like trying because it's just a bit weird. but just search me up. You'll find basically all my links on Google. And even if you're not from Heidelberg and you need help with anything that I just mentioned, I'm happy to help.

Or if you have any questions or I said something that is not true, please help me find the better answer.

Christian Brim (44:24.052)
I love that. Jonathan, thank you very much for your time. Listeners will have those links in the show notes. If you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. If you don't like what you've heard, shoot us a message, tell us what you'd like to hear, and we'll get rid of Jonathan. Until next time, ta ta for now.

Jonathan Schüßler (44:44.536)
Thank you.